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2007/09/22 21:31:01
Subject: Castellan Saturation
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I'm thinking about running three whirlwinds loaded with Castellan mines for my Raven Guard. Was wondering in anybody who has used this tactic has any observations to make. I usually run three 6 man las/plas squads, one 6 man H.B./plas squad, and two 6 man Bolter/plas Squads with R.B., and two Elite assault squads. Shrike and 4 man wing. (I know he's really a points sink, but I can't help it.) Jump Chaplain. Larger games will see a smattering of Dev squads, dreadnoughts, and land speedsers according to taste. I was thinking about dropping mines into wooded areas and other cover, then rushing my fast elements to take advantage of it.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/22 23:14:04
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Executing Exarch
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What's there to observe? It works well and is a nightmare to face. The hows and whys of it are kind of obvious. I just got decimated by a three WW SAFH army yesterday. It's the ultimate in anti-Harlie protection.
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Wehrkind wrote:Sounds like a lot, but with a little practice I can do ~7-8 girls in 2-3 hours. Probably less if the cat and wife didn't want attention in that time.
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2007/09/22 23:31:26
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Krazed Killa Kan
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The thing I've found is that it's really the counter against Mech Eldar, since they can't drop off stuff without getting hurt, at least not CC specialists. It really is great in that reguard. Likewise, it's only good vs Nidzilla if they take gaunts/rippers en masse. I've had Warriors and ravenors walk through them, though it was kind of hard since I was having trouble getting that 4+ to come up. 
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2007/09/23 01:02:07
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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Whirlwinds are 0-1 for Raven Guard because of Flesh Over Steel.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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2007/09/23 02:55:48
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Executing Exarch
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Voodoo Boyz: Likewise, it's only good vs Nidzilla if they take gaunts/rippers en masse. Are you forgetting a little thing called stealer shock?
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Wehrkind wrote:Sounds like a lot, but with a little practice I can do ~7-8 girls in 2-3 hours. Probably less if the cat and wife didn't want attention in that time.
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2007/09/23 05:27:26
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Posted By Orlanth on 09/23/2007 6:02 AM
Whirlwinds are 0-1 for Raven Guard because of Flesh Over Steel.
I'll just run them as a codex chapter with no traits.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/23 05:56:40
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Posted By Lordhat on 09/23/2007 10:27 AM Posted By Orlanth on 09/23/2007 6:02 AM
Whirlwinds are 0-1 for Raven Guard because of Flesh Over Steel.
I'll just run them as a codex chapter with no traits.
Won't this prevent you from being able to use Shrike?
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And God said unto Abraham, "Take this mighty bolter, my son, and smite thy enemies from afar. Fear not, Emperor protects..er, I mean, well, youknowwhatImean." |
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2007/09/23 06:18:20
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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[ARTICLE MOD]
Longtime Dakkanaut
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Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 09/23/2007 7:55 AM Voodoo Boyz: Likewise, it's only good vs Nidzilla if they take gaunts/rippers en masse. Are you forgetting a little thing called stealer shock?
I wouldn't worry about it overmuch, because my stealers are all in assault in turn 2 anyways or I've lost the game.
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"I was not making fun of you personally - I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow." - Lt. Colonel Dubois, Starship Troopers
Don't settle for the pewter horde! Visit http://www.bkarmypainting.com and find out how you can have a well-painted army quickly at a reasonable price. |
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2007/09/23 06:19:07
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
In my happy place, I'm in my happy place...
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Yes you can't use shrike if you are using a 'nilla list. The three whirlwinds are good against foot armies but if I see one show up I always plan to use my 36" move and blast straight into your whirlies in my first move with some fire dragons and harlies.
So basically a fantastic support but don't rely on it against fast lists.
Orion
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2007/09/23 06:46:55
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Posted By Orion_44 on 09/23/2007 11:19 AM
Yes you can't use shrike if you are using a 'nilla list. The three whirlwinds are good against foot armies but if I see one show up I always plan to use my 36" move and blast straight into your whirlies in my first move with some fire dragons and harlies.
So basically a fantastic support but don't rely on it against fast lists.
Orion
The only requirement for using Shrike is that your Raven Guard army is at least 1500 points. No mention of having to use the traits to take special characters is made anywhere in the Codex.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/23 11:26:06
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Dakka Veteran
the spire of angels
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The only requirement for using Shrike is that your Raven Guard army is at least 1500 points. No mention of having to use the traits to take special characters is made anywhere in the Codex. i think the rules are pretty clear here it has to be a raven guard army to use shrike. using the trait system is not a raven guard amry as they have thier required traits already laid out. thus you cannot use srike unless you use allies rules such as those found in the DH/WH codex's it the same as any other chapter specific character. you cannot play blood angels and take the dark angels sammael the master of the ravenwing in the army. it isn;t a legal list.
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"victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none" |
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2007/09/23 13:20:27
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Executing Exarch
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C99: I wouldn't worry about it overmuch, because my stealers are all in assault in turn 2 anyways or I've lost the game. That gives one turn for mine-laying, or two if the Marine player went first. It's a hell of a lot better than no mines at all.
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Wehrkind wrote:Sounds like a lot, but with a little practice I can do ~7-8 girls in 2-3 hours. Probably less if the cat and wife didn't want attention in that time.
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2007/09/23 13:35:05
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Krazed Killa Kan
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My problem was that in order to deploy well enough (to not get completely over-run by consolidating Warriors/Raveners), I was spread out enough where the mines were hard to concentrate.
Spread the mines out wide enough to prevent them from coming in (on 2-3 turns) and you don't get layers of mines, just one.
And then you need a 4+, 2+, and them to fail a 4+ or 5+ save. It's "good", but not something that completely stops the Nids.
And depending on terrain it can be hard to always hide said Whirlwinds from all angles from being shot for 2-3 turns.
It's GOOD, but it's not an auto-win vs. hordes.
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2007/09/23 13:59:43
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Posted By mughi3 on 09/23/2007 4:26 PM The only requirement for using Shrike is that your Raven Guard army is at least 1500 points. No mention of having to use the traits to take special characters is made anywhere in the Codex. i think the rules are pretty clear here it has to be a raven guard army to use shrike. using the trait system is not a raven guard amry as they have thier required traits already laid out. thus you cannot use srike unless you use allies rules such as those found in the DH/WH codex's it the same as any other chapter specific character. you cannot play blood angels and take the dark angels sammael the master of the ravenwing in the army. it isn;t a legal list.
Pg 45 says you can use the normal Space Marines list without traits for any of the Chapters of Legend if you like. So, Raven Guard, using the Vanilla list is perfectly legal, and if it's 1500 points, you can take Shrike.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/23 16:30:31
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Lordhat is right. It says it right there. I can't believe I've never looked at that before.
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If it makes sense, then it's not RAW. |
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2007/09/23 18:44:37
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Been Around the Block
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Does Chapters of Legend include DA, BA and SW armies? Am wondering if that's the way to field a competitive DA list.
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2007/09/23 19:30:46
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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The chapters of legend are listed in the Codex, along with which traits and drawbacks each uses. Da, BA and SW's aren't listed........
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/23 20:03:34
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Dakka Veteran
the spire of angels
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Posted By Zathrithal on 09/23/2007 9:30 PM
Lordhat is right. It says it right there. I can't believe I've never looked at that before.
well damn! me niether, of course i play DAs, nids and tau so the divergent traits section really wan't all that important to me. i just figure if your going to play ravenguard you should play it the right way according to the theme of the chapter. otherwise your just playing smurfguard
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"victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none" |
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2007/09/24 00:54:55
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
In my happy place, I'm in my happy place...
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Very interesting, I even have a Raven Guard army and never noticed this. Of course my army was built to try to re-enact part of the Damocles conflict so I just used the traits as defined.
So while you lose some of the advantages you can still take shrike... I may have to revisit this list now that the campaign they played in is over.
Orion
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2007/09/25 17:09:04
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Foul Dwimmerlaik
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He can still use shrike, call his army "Raven Guard" and not use traits. I do the same thing with my Lysanderwing. I use no traits yet I am still able to use Lysander. In other words, a specific chapter can always go pure "codex" and not use traits and still be legal to field using special characters for their respective chapter. I regurgitate this little rule all the time on dakka and still no body sees it.  I say go for it, Lordhat. Its nasty and will earn you enmity though for using so many mines strewn around. [edit] whoops! I didnt see the second page of this thread.... already covered issues here... my bad.
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2007/09/25 23:55:04
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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In a related note; is there anywhere that says that Ultramarines *cant* choose traits?
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2007/09/26 00:23:58
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Nothing that says you CAN either. I'd suspect that most people won't care so long as you're not taking things like Tigerius or Honor Guard/Tyranic Vets
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2007/09/26 03:32:45
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'd hit you with a baseball bat for trying to take traits with an Ulta's army. They are famous for following the Codex to the letter. You could say you were using one of the chapters they founded with their geneseed, but then you can't take the special units. Not that any of their choices are all that spectacular. Casius lost his combi-flamer but kept the points for it (plus, he is a chappy in power armor with no jump pack, he needs either termy armor or a jump pack), RAW nazis argue that tigurius can only use his extended range on Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, Honor guards are about the most confused unit out there (power weapons and terminator honors yet they have bolters?) and Calgar, though he does have many redeeming qualities, can't take a normal command squad. The tyranic war veterans are about the only special unit that is worth it. That special Heavy Bolter round can be beastly at the right time. Or, you can try and use them for some kind of suicidal TMC charge unit, which is fun as hell, but usually not very effective.
All in all, what you are giving up by being a secondary chapter founded by the ultra's is tyranic war vets and Calgar. Calgar can be just what the doctor ordered in the right place at the right time, and war vets can be worth their weight in gold depending on how the dice gods favor you, but you aren't losing very much.
The thing that makes me the most angry is Casius losing his combi-flamer. It was flavor-ful, it was fun, and it made him different. I mean, for the Emperor's sake, the servitor in the picture is holding the bloody thing. Bah I say. BAH!
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If it makes sense, then it's not RAW. |
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2007/09/29 16:32:10
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 09/23/2007 7:55 AM Voodoo Boyz: Likewise, it's only good vs Nidzilla if they take gaunts/rippers en masse. Are you forgetting a little thing called stealer shock?
Stealer Shock is not a Nidzilla army.
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2007/09/29 19:04:54
Subject: RE: Castellan Saturation
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Executing Exarch
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Well crap, you're right. These days when I see "nidzilla," I tend to just read it as "nids,", and vice versa. Oops.
Still, to the extent that catellans are good against nidzilla which takes gaunts and rippers en masse, it is also good against nidzilla which takes stealers in equal proportion.
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Wehrkind wrote:Sounds like a lot, but with a little practice I can do ~7-8 girls in 2-3 hours. Probably less if the cat and wife didn't want attention in that time.
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