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Just curious which model everyone's putting their icons on?  Does your aspiring champion carry it?  Special weapons trooper?  Is it a separate model like GW is showing?

I honesty can't decide.  I want to leave it on the champion or a special weapon trooper as they're the last, usually, to die in the unit so I'll keep the benefit - then again when I eventually do have to choose, I don't want to be in a situation where I have to choose the icon bearer or a meltagun I need against that rempaging dreadnought, etc.  Then there's all the concern about all one's eggs in the same basket if I load one guy down with icon, weapon and/or champion status.

How are you guys doing it?

PS there's also the problem that a lot of my old icons were champions with powerfists/weapons - now under the new rules I don't often use champions as I'm shooting more, so I can't use those representative models anymore.

-Spellbound

Posted By Spellbound on 10/12/2007 11:27 AM

Then there's all the concern about all one's eggs in the same basket if I load one guy down with icon, weapon and/or champion status.

*snipe*

As I only had two standard bearers in my Chaos army before Nü C:CSM hit, and don't really want more, I just say my champions have the unit ikon.  Every squad has them, so easy blanket rule for handling the ikons.  And anyway, vindicares / mind war / whatever generally ruin my day no matter if the champ had a fist and ikon or just fist

- Salvage

I've always put them on a separate model. Torrent of fire users, Mind War farseer, etc can make the hard choice.

Is that acceptable, saying across the board "all my champions have them"?  I, too, would prefer to avoid building 100 icons for my rather large chaos army if I could avoid it.  The last codex seemed to explicitly state that an icon could be many things, so I used things such as a skull with the mark of khorne on it [from a slain champion of khorne]  stuck to the base, etc. - little changes to the models, and that was enough.  Now they seem to be pushing the flags or at least something a bit more extravagant.  SOME of my guys DID carry flags, so I worry again that I can't say "all the champions" for that reason.

I guess in the end I'll helter-skelter it.  Some units will have separate models, some will be carried by the heavy weapons trooper, others will bring it on the champion depending on which is easier or looks the best.  I guess that way I'm covered in most situations!

Torrent of fire rules will suck though - sooo many icons will be lost that way, I'm sure, and with them their bonuses.  Why GW, why?  Why can a Librarian buy a familiar and keep the bonus when it dies but we get stuck with a crappy rule like this?

-Spellbound

Don't whine. Torrent of Fire is really not all that scary for marines. T4 reduces the number of wounds, and a 3+ save is pretty solid. Torrent of Fire usually only starts being a significant problem late in the game after the unit's been whittled down, by which point the icon isn't that important anyway.

GW's had chaos icon bearer models for what, ten or fifteen years? The default is basically a unit standard, similar to in fantasy. They said it can be a lot of different things to allow modeling flexibility. "All the champions have icons" is definitely NOT sufficient unless all the champions physically do have some kind of icons modeled on them.

I think the reason GW changed that rule is that it has become kind of annoying for non-Chaos players to keep track of which units had what Icons (if any) as the rules allowed some units to have icons and some models to have personal icons.

Most players didn't even bother to model a personal icon.


CSM units should be clearly modeled to show their icon just like any other important unit upgrade. If they're all on the Champions that's fine, but they better darn well be modeled on the Champions so I can tell which Icon they have.

I am not carving up my characters to make them carry a flag.  For units, numerous and varied, I think it's important to show what icon they're using and makes the army look more chaosy to have banners flying.  But I am not going to marr up my characters with eyesore flags sticking from their backs or carried in their lightning claws.

 

And let's be honest, GW doesn't think it's important either.  All of the special characters carry personal icons, yet none of them have flags.  Just put two marks on them - one's the mark, the other's the icon.  The definitions are similar anyway.

-Spellbound

Posted By Mannahnin on 10/12/2007 12:07 PM
Torrent of fire users, Mind War farseer, etc can make the hard choice.

That's true, I never thought of that.  Stupid torrent of fire.  Good thing Exarchs get that 3+ save.

Posted By Spellbound on 10/12/2007 8:14 PM

And let's be honest, GW doesn't think it's important either.  All of the special characters carry personal icons, yet none of them have flags.  Just put two marks on them - one's the mark, the other's the icon.  The definitions are similar anyway.

I agree that it's not that important for Independent Characters.  The model's distinct.  If he doesn't have a visibly obvious icon, you just tell your opponent.

It's for the ones in squads that it's critically important.  So that your opponent knows where it is and has a chance to kill it just as he does a lascannon dude or an aspiring champion.  No excuses for not modeling those. 

One approach that I intend to take is drilling a small hole in the top of the backpack for several of my models and mounting the decals from the Chaos vehicle sprue on a steel rod that can be placed in any of the holes for models that are likely candidates.

The placement of the icon always seemed relatively clear to me.  If it is a H2H squad it goes on the champ, if it is shooting it goes on the special/heavy weapon.

Mannahinin has already given two good reasons why that may not necessarily be such a great idea--ToF and Mind War equivalents. What do you think of that?