Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is there any time when it's a good idea to put plasma rifles on Broadsides?

Thanks!

If you take an ASS I'd say take Smart Missiles for two different guns for two different roles.

Otherwise if you want a bit more punch to go along with the Railgun I'd probably pay the 15 points for the Plasmarifles + Multitracker. I'd say it's not worth it, but it _does_ get two shots at close range. Probably smoke a MEQ or two, and it's twin-linked unlike the missiles.

You can also add another 10 points to take a Shas'vre and do both but you're probably getting too pricey.

So, "yes".

Before saves on T4, you're getting 1.333 wounds with the missiles vs 0.625 with the rifles. And that's just with one shot, and before armour saves. Who knows that extra dead MEQ could force a morale check and keep them off your lines for a turn.

If you're having problems with non-MEQ armies 10/15 points on your Broadsides won't make a difference.

just my opinion

I think it is a bad idea to put Plasma on Broadsides. If any unit that you would fire them on is close enough to be fired at them, the broadsides are usually facing an assault and death soon anyways.

The Smart missiles are always the better option. It diversifies the role of the Broadside without increasing their points. It gives you the option of firing at things you may not see. And it is simply the most shots at the longest range, which is what Broadsides depend on.

Depends on your style of play I think.

As mentioned above, if something is close enough to be shot by a plasma rifle then they are close enough to assualt you.

Personally I prefer the SMS mainly due to the fact that I have lots of AP 2 weapons across the rest of my army and I aim to field my broadsides on high ground or the corners of the battlefield which would make the plasma useless.

If however I wanted to field them within the ranks of my normal troops, maybe with an A.S.S. then the plasma rifle would be useful to keep those pesky terminators at bay for a while longer.

It has its uses but my vote stays with the SMS

Cheers

I once considered toying with the idea of a 72 Fire warrior army backed up by 9 Broadsides.

720pts + 810pts = 1530, and the tournament standard here in Canada is 1700pts.

Anti-infantry...check.
Anti-Tank...check.
Mobility...nil.

One thing the army is weak vs (aside from claiming objectives) is 2+ saves (kinda...I'm thinking Lysanderwing or the odd Deathwing.) Twin Linked Plasma would be a good complement is this case. I mean, SMS are nice, but I already have 72 Str 5 shots. I will miss not needing LOS, though.

In almost any other army, the cheaper SMS is a more versatile alternative.

I might drop a Fire Warrior squad to cram in a Pirhanna or two for Whirlwind/Basilisk killing, but otherwise I think this army is pretty cool.

Zoned

I like the idea of singleton broadside team leaders with ASS + plasma and multitracker + 2 shield drones.

I run my pair with either target lock and a pair of shield drones, or one shield drone each. smart missiles being the secondary weapon.

Plasma would only be useful; if you took multitrackers and you cannot affiord them. target locks, drone controllers and ASS are all higher priorities and you can only have one per standard suit.

If you want ASS forget plasma straight off.
If you dont want ASS then its usually to defend yourself with drones or to target lock or both. In which case you need to focus on your main weaponry IMHO, either because you cannot escape and must rely on massed railguin or SMS fire, or you are trying 'trick shots' with target locked railguns.
Neither leaves much room for plasma.

That's pretty much what I figured, and didn't think I'd have much need of plasma, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious.

I just look at the roll the broadside is ment to fill and easily come to the conclusion that plasma is right out. The main gun of the broadside is the railgun. S10 AP1. Whats it good for? Smashing tanks regardless of facing. Tau plasma is only S6. So any tank with AV13 or better can't be touched. Any tanks with AV12 or better can be hit but glance only. Yes, its better than SMS which are only S5, in that you have a chance. But what tanks are AV12 front armor, we ignore side armor because broadsides can only move 6"? Rare is the time you can move 6" to get a side shot unless your opponent isn't paying attention. Pretty much Eldar, other Tau tanks, and dreadnaughts. Most other transports are AV10 or 11 which the SMS system can effect anyway. The main battle tanks in other armies are at least AV13. Also with AV12 the railgun is penetrating on a 2+ anyway.

Add to the fact that most broadsides are not run in units of 1, two or three is most common. Pretty much the railguns are all your going to need to take out any tank.

Now look at anti-horde. The SMS system is by far a better choice. Your getting 4 shots over 1 shot and others have shown how the math works on that aspect. Even better anti-hordes is with 2 broadsides.

Anyway, this is getting long. Because of the railgun the SMS is just the better companion weapon because it makes the broadside usefull against all opponents regardless if they bring vehicles or not.

dead tau army...check

It may sound imperesive and your broadsides will probably survive most of the game, until they get assaulted.

The real problem here is your not playing to the TAUs strengths in mobility. 72 FWs may sound impressive with 30" S5 guns untill you realise they have no heavy weapons and they hit on 4's. mathhammer as much as i hate to use it pretty much tells you your going to miss with half against MEQs and a little over half will wound. a litttle over half of them will be saved against. 

It should also be noted that a fish with proper upgrades has better range, the same effective firepower(as it  hits more) and is far harder to kill than 12 firewarriors at 30" . having troops along for extra FOF support adds to its performance as well.

On average your going to kill at most 9 MEQs in one turn from all that shooting if you can bring all your guns to bear. in most cases with 25% terrain your not going to be that lucky, your not going to have enough cover to hide in, and you will get assaulted. IG are the kings of static gun lines because they can take heavy weapons, special weapons, improve thier to hit chances, improve thier leadership greatly, and improve thier cover save. none of which tau can do.

The 9 broadsides are tougher and a threat but they are slow, most armies have units that will get to them in at most 2 turns rather it be bikers, podding units, wraiths, scarab swarms etc....unless you can throw something in thier path as a blocking unit, which is where the tau mobility factor comes into its own.

Here's a thought, if you want to find out a cool hypothetical situation to use them in that you could try to manipulate to happen every game.

Take 3 Broadsides, all with Target Arrays. Take a Team Leader with Bonding Knife, Multi-Tracker, H.W. Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones. This way you can either not move and shoot your railguns, or you can stay on the move and pump out 3 s6 shots at 24", or 6 if you see something heavy get to close. With the Target Arrays you hit on 3's regardless of weapon, and you can reroll, regardless of weapon. It's a neat idea if you want them to be more aggresive. Although, of course, you'll probably be shot at more, or easily assaulted faster if you're not careful with your move (if you move). The Shield drones offer some decent protection in either case.

I'm not saying this is the way to go if you really want to try it out. But it sounds kind of cool if you can get it to work with minimal repercussions. So using the rest of your army in conjunction with this could really pay off. Especially if you take 3 units of them. That way if your opponent doesn't field many tanks, then you can at least get the option to try to rapid fire as much as possible. Kind of like Obliterators in a watered down sence of the roll, and without Deep Strike.

Heck, I've got a Tau army, and I might try that out! When I do I'll tell you how it went. If it sucked I'll give the proven "nix". If it worked out OK, I'll give it a thumbs up!

Ridiculous idea. Yeah, spend all your HS slots turning Broadsides into second-rate Cris suits. That'll work!

dead tau army...check

The only massed Broadside army I know of uses a krootswarm rather than fire warriors, other than the compulsory unit. Kroot for all their faults are far more viable escort for Broadsides. Back this up with Pathfinders to make your shooting suitably heinous.

Hey, it was just a suggestion, and I think it sounded like a fun one!  Yeah, it is a bit ridiculous, but who knows, maybe you could make it work.  And what if you wanted to do a Crisis-light army?  I see it as a fun, suitable alternative, and it might fit well in my 100 Kroot army.  As pointed out, Kroot can be viable screens/support for mass broadsides.

And besides, I don't know of any Crisis suits that can have s10 ap1 72" range weapons!  It's just hypothetical, and I think worth trying for a couple of friendly games to see how it pans out.

I normally run 2 squads of 2 BS as two of my heavy support (the other being a railhead).

My preferred combination is for them to have ASS, TL Plasma, with the team leader getting hard wired target lock, drone controller (2 shield drones), and multi-tracker. AP2 is a weakness that my particular list has, and my area tends to have more than 25% terrain. Being able to move and put out accurate AP2 fire makes a huge difference for me. In the event that someone does get close enough, I can put out 3 TL AP1/2 shots, and 5 shots if they're really close. Being able to do that makes a large difference in the way that my opponents approach my broadsides.

 

Edit: Not ASS.  I screwed up the upgrade.  Targetting array, for the 4BS.

There used to be. I haven't found a convincing case presently for them.

Tasking: your Broadsides shoot long range to kill vehicles or Zilla2+ targets. You can spend 10 points per suit to give them the ability to walk away from an encroaching enemy and still put an AP2 shot on them... but buying the ASS also does the same thing, while also increasing your long-range viability (many is the time a slight angle change buys you a great deal of targeting flexibility). The 10 points per suit to do the same thing with TLPR *doesn't* give you this targeting flexibility at long range, but it *does* give you the potential of an extra shot in a "do-or-die" situation dealing with a close-in threat.

The way it used to work: TLPR+MT. Gives you a mobile AP2 option at mid range, doubles your stationary firepower at close range, and triples it in a desperation situation. That costs 15 points per suit, or 5 points over the standard ASS-SMS kit. I think being able to move those Broadsides to get long range shots on targets attempting to hide is pretty important, but TLPR+MT could be occasionally vialbe in a center-based team that you feel confident will have plenty of targets all game - and will also serve as a gravity point for enemy force concentration.

Of course, all of these presume that you are running the TL with HWMT and 2SD.

-JTS

Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't see the phrase "buy more shots" in there! 

Coulda been there... but I am not convinced that "Buy More Shots" is the unbreakable maxim now that it once was. The ASS (vs the MT) is a very valuable option for SMS Broadside configs, allowing you to run/hide from danger while still putting out meaningful fire and to get "surprise" angle shots on vehicles believed hidden - or even just to force much more cautious/conservative vehicle placement behind cover. Opponents are unable to cut a fine line on choosing a parking spot for their tank that allows an ideal shot/deployment area while still being safe from fire - people may choose increased safety over taking one shot with their tank that turn.

I have been considering some Tau list builds (in an updated Nikkenryu style) that run 2 big Broadside units and 3 Sniper squads. Maybe I'll post one for analysis in Army Lists.

-JTS

Hmm.  I'll post my list (a work in progress) there too; I'd love to have your input.

Is the Nikkenryu list semi-mechanized?  I forgot how that style worked.