Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

it's been a while since I've played and I was just starting agains so would this be effective

Reclusiarch, Termniator armour, storm bolter 125

Emperors champion, Abhor the witch 110 

10 innitiates, powerfist meltagun 4 neophytes 225

10 innitiates, powerfist meltagun 4 neophytes 225

2 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit 310

7sword bretheren assault terminators, furious charge 301

land raider crusader, blessed 290

Total cost 1486 so if anyone would be so kind to offer Crituque and tell me what to do with the remaining points. CHEERS

Hmm.

Your list has zero anti-tank weaponry. Those meltaguns obviously will put the hurt on a tank, but they have a 12" range, which means the only armor they're going to see is the stuff that wants to assault you.

Your Crusader Squads are irregular, but that's okay. I prefer to have a 1:1 ratio between my Initiates and my Neophytes in order to get the 4+ Meatshield save when the first enemy salvo hits, but that's just me. If it works for you, I say go for it.

I would recommend against taking Assault Terminators. As good as they are in Assault, their lack of ranged weaponry means that in the event they are ever slogging up the board (a likely occurrence when your opponent realizes that your army has a 400 point hole in it, coupled with a very conspicuous Land Raider Crusader moving up the field. Tying up 716 points into a one-trick pony is, IMHO, a bad idea, especially if your opponent knows what you're doing, in which case he'll simply circumvent your tactic by blasting you.

I'd recommend downgrading the Reclusiarch to a Marshal with a Bolt Pistol and Power Sword. Stick him in one of the Crusader Squads. He costs the same as a Reclusiarch with a Bolt Pistol, but gives universal Ld10, which will be useful if you follow the rest of my advice.

Ditch the Assault Terminators in favor of something with some "oomf." a 6-man 2 Assault Cannon Terminator Squad may work, although at this points level I would say you're better off running a pair of 8-10 man Assault Squads. Give them Plasma Pistols and a Power Fist, and you'll have fast units that can chase down and tie up the enemy forces to allow your slower infantry to get to grips.

The problem that Black Templars have with armies of this points level is that it is difficult to generalize your army. My 1500 point builds either concentrate on a Terminator Deep Strike, or takes a ton of fast units (an Assault Squad, Multi-Melta Attack Bikes, Land Speeders). If I have to go for an all-rounder list, I usually take two Las/Plas squads to fill the prerequisite anti-tank role before moving on to bigger and better things.

If you were to retool your list, I think you could lose the Neophytes. They're pretty worthless unless taken in large numbers (16-20 man squads of between 8 and 10 Neophytes), and are points better spent elsewhere, IMHO. Try this:

Marshal w/ Jump Pack, Lightning Claw Pair, Holy Orb of Antioch, Frag Grenades, Combat Shield - 171
EC w/ Abhor - 110

10 Initiates w/ PF, Meltagun - 185
10 Initiates w/ PF, Meltagun - 185
7 Initiates w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun - 133

8 Assault Marines w/ PF, 2 Plasma Pistols - 201
8 Assault Marines w/ PF, 2 Plasma Pistols - 201

Vindicator w/ PMS - 155
Vindicator w/ PMS - 155

1496 Points

The Vindicators are great for moving with your ground troops. They keep enemy assault troops at bay until they're destroyed, which is an all-or-nothing setup with Power of the Machine Spirit, and allow your sloggers to attack at will. The Assault Marines will make a great flanking force that can act as a vanguard element, bogging down problematic units or taking shooty enemy troops out of commission while your hammer moves in. The EC will give a Leadership and CC boost, while the Marshal will tear up enemy models (T5 or lower for the most part) in CC. The Holy Orb of Antioch is a must, I might add - killing a Monolith with one is the best feeling you'll ever have. The 7 Las/Plas shooty Marines will help out in the backfield by picking off flanker units, and dealing with anything that tries to encircle your army.

As for my advice, take what you will. Your list isn't bad, but its success in the field hinges on your Assault Terminators getting into Assault, which is not difficult to stop from happening if your opponent has any sense. Games will also get a little boring as tactics become redundant, leaving you with a one-trick pony that essentially has no place in tougher games.

Hope that helps.

CK

With the LRC and Terminator retinue Iwas hoping that it would draw fire away from the Vindi's and giving me a mobile fire/assault base. I could drop it to the chap for a master and the LRC for a normal landraider giving me additional points to spend on Las Plas squads. PS this was just for friendly games so I want to keep it competitive as well a fun  

I'd agree with CofK on pretty much most of his points.

I can understand the concept of a fire magnet but at 1500pts, a 700pt super unit is a bit much.

Also you cannot reliably assume that the LR (being your only bit of armour) will reach your chosen spot before becoming immobilised or worse.

My personal favourite anti tank unit is a six man assault sqd with pwr fst with attached chappy, all with melta bombs.

Good all round unit.

I'd also fit in a few initiates to your crusader sqds.

Cheap meatshields for your neophites and you'll be able to save some points if you keep the numbers the same.

Really like the pair of Vindis.

I'd free up some points to mount the two Crusader squads, 8 - 10 men, in Rhinos. Then they can keep up with the speed of the LRC and can act as a second wave in assault.

wuestenfux, the only problem I see with such a decision is that suddenly you have only about 6-700 points of infantry. For an army like Black Templars where numbers are key, this is bad, especially when such a small amount of troops are reliant on 350 points packed into three vehicles to get them there.

Yes, having 5 armored vehicles is cool in a 1500 points game, but since two can be dropped by anti-personnel weapons and leave your crew entangled, coupled with the fact that mechanized templars completely detract from the strengths of their list, IMHO, and you suddenly have a very weak army list composed from a codex that is already only 2nd Tier.

RZ already moves them quickly enough, and with universal Ld10 from a Marshal, Fearlessness from a Chaplain, or Ld10 from the EC, chances are low that a squad will run, making the purchase of a vehicle less profitable, as they will still move quickly and will still get into assault relatively quickly.

I think he's better off shaving down his Assault Terminator Squad, swapping it and the Land Raider out for two 6-man 2 Assault Cannon Terminator Squads, and using the points from shaved down Crusader Squads to go towards Assault Marines or tank-hunting units, like Attack Bikes or Land Speeders, both with Multi-Meltas.

Marshal w/ Jump Pack, Claws, HOA, Combat Shield, Frags, Teleport Homer - 171
EC w/ Abhor the Witch - 110
6 Terminators w/ 2 Asscans - 280
6 Terminators w/ 2 Asscans - 280
8 Initiates w/ PF, Meltagun - 153
8 Initiates w/ PF, Meltagun - 153
7 Assault Marines w/ PF, Plasma Pistol - 174
7 Assault Marines w/ PF, Plasma Pistol - 174

1500 Points

I think this list is even more competitive than the one I made previously. Sure, you lose all your armor and Vindis (which I love, btw - I didn't exclude them because I hate them, I excluded them because infantry are in greater need), but hey, at 1500 points, few armies can field 44 models that are 3+ save or better, let alone 12 2+ save models.

Antitank comes from the Teleport Homering Assault Cannon Terminators. Tie down the shooty stuff with your Assault Marines, move in with the sloggers and the EC immediately thereafter. Throw the Terminators into the mix after a round or two of shooting, and viola.

The only list that will be flat out impossible for you to kill is a Monolith-packing Necron list. Everything else can either be chased down, or blown away on the deep strike.

CK

Thanks for your help guys I play test the army tonight but i think in bigger games I'll take a couplae of vindis and Max out mycrusader squads

Happy to help. Let us know how the game goes.

CK

I'd always use a chaplain if I could, although a marshal isn't too bad. A chappy is to good to pass up. Give him a PF, jumppack, and homer and you are good to go. Litanies of hate makes one of your assault units more potent when the time comes for close combat...additionally it is good to get those extra meltabomb hits on moving vehicles as well if the need arises. Currently in my lists I always roll with a chaplain as my first HQ choice besides the EC.

Capt K