Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is the Chaos List I've been running.

2000 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster

1 Daemon Prince @ 160 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Warptime (x1)

1 Daemon Prince @ 160 Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Warptime (x1)

7 Thousand Sons @ 246 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

7 Thousand Sons @ 246 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

7 Thousand Sons @ 246 Pts
Bolter; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Sorceror @ [85] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; Fearless; Bolt of Change; Inferno Bolts; Mark of Tzeentch

6 Noise Marines @ 245 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Blastmaster; Sonic Blaster (x5); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Mark of Slaanesh
1 Noise Champion @ [60] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Mark of Slaanesh

6 Noise Marines @ 245 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Blastmaster; Sonic Blaster (x5); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Mark of Slaanesh
1 Noise Champion @ [60] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Fist; Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Mark of Slaanesh

2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

2 Obliterators @ 150 Pts
Power Fist; Obliterator Weapons; Fearless; Slow and Purposeful

Total Roster Cost: 1998

Not posting this for critique, but if you want to...go ahead.

Just a note.
Your Marines are a bit slow (and purposeful).
I'd mount them in Rhinos.
You could use the Rhinos just to reduce incoming fire.

That is indeed the crux of the list.

I can move and fire with effect with *every* unit.

There's no reason to bring explode-alots and wound myself.

The Demon Princes and the Obliterators make for plenty of hard targets. If someone wants to try and stay away from me, I'll get them in range eventually. Usually 2 turns max but more often I just move up and open fire, and the army is hardy enough to get pounded.

I welcome heavy weapons fire at my Thousand Sons, since that means the Oblits and the DP will keep doing their job.

The EC get targeted early and often, but since horde armies don't have AP3 or better shooting that's accurate enough to scare me...that means either Marines or Eldar are shooting them dead. Who they aren't very good against, but the Thousand Sons are.

Getting shot out of Rhinos...and taking wounds from the forced bail, is bad.

Remember, I can shoot everything in the army at all times, out to 24" and beyond. Move *and* fire is what the army excels at....it's what it is intended to do.

ok, maybe i am missing something here but why no lash? It seems that if the enemy DID try to run that would be a great way to prevent that, lol. Also do the EC really need power fists? Given that the leader costs 60 points you could get tons more shots if you just bought 8 regular guys instead. That way against hordes you can really mop up, and like you said MEQS can easily kill the EC which is when you would really want the PF anyway.

No lash because it isn't needed. My army hurts you at 24", if you want to stay at that range that's fine with me.

The EC have a power fist because the EC are my CC squads against non-shooty armies...and I need PF to sleep better at night. An extra sonic blaster won't help when 8 MC are on the board....

I think you'd do a lot better with MoTz demons with Bolt of Change, if you're going to go with two DPs. Pretty tough and 12" flying BOC is awesome.

That aside I think once people kill your obliterators you're in for a rough game with no way to control the range and fairly short range guns.

I'm a big fan of move and shoot 24" guns, to be honest, and they will very often control most of a 4x6 table. But an army like dark eldar, IG or tau with lots of long range guns is going to put the hurt on you.

Some questions I ask myself in this edition, before building a list, are:
1) Can it beat Nightshield Dark Eldar
2) Can it beat gunline IG
3) Can it beat boyz-horde Orks?
4) Can it beat JSJ Tau with hammerheads?

Other than the Tau, these armies are fairly rare, but you can expect them to get more and more common as their dexes are re-released. They are what I like to call 'foil' armies - things that your generic well-designed MEQ killing list will be annihilated by if you run up against it in a tournament.

For your army, the answers are:
1) No
2) No
3) Maybe
4) Maybe

If that means anything to you

Hmmm let me see.

Nightshield Dark Eldar, yes--I've played 3 nifty DE lists and taken them down. The NS work great for turn 1. Then they don't work so well...and I think when the Codex gets redone the NS will be going away.

I've taken a 200 man IG army down with the list. If that isn't gunline, what is? It's a pita, but usually you can handle armies like that with good generalship. Move and fire vs no move and fire makes for a real nice edge.

The Orks are a pain, but honestly until the new Dex comes out I don't really care how I fare against the old Dex. Having said that, I don't know if I can take my own planned Ork army; but we'll see if I can shoot and scoot long enough to bring down enough Orks. Honestly, I don't think I can on a broad front. I think it will come down to killing the closest units before they Waagh and come get me out of whatever corner I'm hiding in. I hope it's possible to beat the mech orks, but I think that will depend entirely on turn 1.

Tau don't worry me. If Mech Eldar don't worry me, why should Tau? Missile Pods are annoying, but most people don't run a Tau list like mine, they run the internets version of a 'good' Tau list. Easily crushed, imho. My own Tau force will have a hard time, but I think if I can drop the DP's before they get to me, I can handle the list. It won't be a massacre or anything, but a draw or a minor vic? Yep, I think so.

A few things you left off your list:

5) Can it beat Tyranids?
6) Can it beat Bike Eldar?
7) Can it beat my Last Chancers?
8) Can it beat my Nurgle list?

The answers to those questions are:

5) It's hard, but doable.
6) A draw is probably best I can manage.
7) Yes, assuming I make enough invulnerable saves on my Thousand Sons.
8) No, it can't.

Thanks for calling my army list generic. And designed to kill Smurfs, which it isn't designed to do--and doesn't actually do that well vs good players. The benefit of my experience I suppose.

It's amazing how much ego is thrown around when you hardcore Dakka guys debate 40k. It really dilutes the quality and quantity of information.

I like that list though, it has lots of potential. Especially if the free fleet if no enemy is within 12 will be in 5th edition.

I'm shocked by your anecdotal evidence. Shocked. Should I consider myself served? Is it on? If you beat 12 raider DE with nightshields I think your opponent might not be so savvy with the generalship.

anyway, your list has 6 oblits and two demon princes and a bunch of guys with Ap3 bolters, walking multimeltas and de facto missile launchers. If it isn't a generic Chaos list with smurf-killing and evil-smurf-killing in mind, I don't know what is. So you're welcome I guess!

I'm not saying it's not a decent list - it's very solid for what Chaos is currently putting out. And it will hang with big bugs and even Mechanized Eldar I'd suspect. But I see it being likely, like the rest of Chaos, to get hit by a foil list it is fairly helpless against frequently enough.

WC_Brian wrote:
It's amazing how much ego is thrown around when you hardcore Dakka guys debate 40k. It really dilutes the quality and quantity of information.

Or maybe the power of the E-WANG is related to what makes hardcore dakka guys hardcore. Did you ever think of that? Well didja, Jonny?

Hey you guys are the final word in 40k so you shouldn't take offense at what little ol' me has to say.

WC_Brian wrote:
Hey you guys are the final word in 40k so you shouldn't take offense at what little ol' me has to say.

lol @ the noobie!

No critiques.
A question and a comment.

I'm wonderig why you botheres with the Mark of Slaanesh on the DP's?
If you aren't taking Lash, wouldn't you be better served with the 4+ invul. save that the mark of Tzeentch would give you?
I know you'd get the Init bump... but you'll rarely ever needs it.
IIRC, doesn't a DP have an init. of 5, already?

My comment is taht, though I understand why you went with 3 Oblits @ 2 each, I prefer 2 units @ 3 each fot rate of fire.
Typically, I find (in games I've played), 1 unit of 2 oblits shooting at one target isn't enough, but 2 units of 2 oblits is too many (Well, more than necessary, anyway).

Overall, I like the list (though I like explody tin-can transports for HtH units like Emp's Kidsies, myself).

Oh... another question popped up...

Why not put a (Ah, Cr@p... I forget the name)... Doom Siren (?) on the Emp's Kids Champs?

Eric

The DP's have MoS so they are I6. Which against alot of armies means I go first.

Every HQ is I5 or better, really. So if I am I6, I don't care if they charge me with a I5 HQ.

Warptime is very very good. I'll take the guaranteed 5 deaths per charge anyday. Ok not guaranteed but pretty close.

I understand about the 3 oblits. I just suck it up.

The Emp Children are for long range gunning down of hordes, or for close combat once the Thousand Sons are engaged, so there's not much reason to put in the flamer template of DOOOOOM.

Stelek wrote:The DP's have MoS so they are I6. Which against alot of armies means I go first.

Every HQ is I5 or better, really. So if I am I6, I don't care if they charge me with a I5 HQ.

Well, if you're using yout DP for character hunting, that is definitely the way to go. Absolutely.

Personally, I prefer Tzeentch simply because I try NOT to character hunt with my DP but, if he DOES end up there, I have the 4+ Invul save for those few pesky power weapons that manage to hit (which, with his WS and T, is pretty difficult for anything but a P-Fist to manage).

Stelek wrote:Warptime is very very good. I'll take the guaranteed 5 deaths per charge anyday. Ok not guaranteed but pretty close.

Oh, yes. Warptime is my precious. It is my favorite spell (followed by Lash and Gift of Chaos)

I've put "Gift of Chaos" to good (read: evil) use, as well.
Ever seen a Trygon turn into a Chaos spawn?
Ever see the look on the player's face when it happens?
Priceless. LOL

Stelek wrote:I understand about the 3 oblits. I just suck it up.

I understand. Plus, since your oppnent has to eliminate the unit, basically, to get any points, it's a bit of an advantage in the victory points game.

Stelek wrote:The Emp Children are for long range gunning down of hordes, or for close combat once the Thousand Sons are engaged, so there's not much reason to put in the flamer template of DOOOOOM.

I looked back at the list. Apparently, on my first read, I only noticed the Blastmasters & not the Sonic Blasters.
You (as you already knew LOL) are right. No need for Rhino's there.


I like this list.
My group typically plays at 2500 points. This list could be bumped up NICELY with another 500.

Hmm...

Eric

Yeah, I'd probably add in two 10 man Nurgle units to run across the field and take objectives. They're very hard to displace with anything but serious CC units or mass heavy weapons fire.

Slaaneshi DP vs tzeentchian DP is pretty much a draw. One can shoot, one goes first against a lot of stuff.

But those energyfist champs in the NM squads are quite odd. Those are shooting troops and you could drop them and add a second power to your TS sorcerors. Maybe Warptime or Gift of Chaos. The first power improves your shooting and the latter gives you a good weapon against high toughness models, Harlequins and such.

You field a lot of scoring units, but only two are mobile...maybe that can hurt you at some point.
I like your list a lot and you even use the sacred numbers.

@longshot:
I agree with you on the DE matchup, but I'm curious:
How do DE manage to field 12 Raiders?

@WC_Brian:
Those ego battles finally made me subscribe to dakka. It just makes me think those dakka vets. got too much sense of humour and they just can hold it back any longer...

PS: Sorry for the close-to-threadomancy.

The fists are for when I get assaulted or need to have a hidden power fist.

The EC have 2 attacks, the TS have 1 attack.

So the TS retreat from CC units, and the EC charge them.

Yes I try to use sacred numbers, hard to do with the Slaanesh they need more than 6 to not be totally ineffective.

I'm all mobile really, since I can move around across the board and not lose much shooting.

I'll post the DE list I ran when it first came out in a seperate thread.

Popping anything (x2) near your TS squads is better than a hiding powerfist in a dakka squad.
And I wouldn't charge anything with ECs anyway. I would shoot my guns too full effect. (read: in the hvy mode.)

I know, you can walk & shoot each turn, but you got only two effective objective grabbers.

Experience tells me otherwise.

The TS are in front of the EC squads. They combine fire, and the EC are I5 with 5 attacks in the turn they charge...and lets me move my TS where they won't get tied up in CC since they suck at CC.

I don't worry much about objectives, the way GW does it they're slowed. I kill you. You take no objectives.

Works good for me.

Wow, 5 attacks...those Noise Marines are some pretty solid assault units.

vogelfrei wrote:Wow, 5 attacks...those Noise Marines are some pretty solid assault units.

Yes, they are?

2 shots.
3 charge.

That's 5 on the turn they charge.

If I'm going to get charged anyway...I'll take 2+3 instead of 3.

Ok...adding in the shooting...*caugh*as already said: pretty solid assault unit.*caugh*

btw, those 1k sons don't loose their invil save in CC and got an already paid force weapon. Plus two AP3 shots.

But it all comes down to personal taste anyway. Both possibilities are viable. And both, TS and NM will probably assaulted anyway - and don't assault on their own, if your opponent knows what he's doing...

Well, you can't rely on 1 attack from guys stuck in the mud to carry an assault.

Very true, most people don't let marines assault--but TS are in front of the EC, so if you come close they're a viable CC threat and the TS are very much tarpit units.

By the way, why would I (or anyone?) think the TS lose their invulnerable save in CC? The TS are just tactical marines, not noted for their prowess against assault units.

Why would I think that you think that your TS lose their invul save? I just listed it, because it's something the NM don't have.

Nice list. To static for my tastes but effective none the less. I keep wanting to try different heavy support choices out in my own chaos I am building but every time I look over the oblit entry I find it hard to do just that.