Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

To preface, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone or answers my posts. When I think about 40k I get bogged down in what ifs and murky grey areas that aren't in my local meta game. Thank you all for your informative responces.

That aside I'm curiouse about the idea of the tyranid psycic chior. I can understand the benefeit of destoying your opponents LD, but what then? Is it to force moral checks? and what about fearless armies?

Doesn't do anything to fearless armies really.

You get into close combat and win is the 'what' really.

I tried it, works good against just about everyone who isn't fearless--then you run into fearless and your army folds.

Why I switched to a gunwall army. Be as fearless as ya like, only a few armies can stand up to it.

With the new chaos codex being what it is, fearless isn't as prevelent as it used to be. That being said, its a fun army to play. The bugs charge forward and the enemy runs. That's the jist of it really. Just keep you chior out of sight till your guants hit the enemy lines. Then move up and watch things run like little girls. However when your primary gimic gets countered (fearless armies show up, or drop poders wipe out your chior) you get hosed. All in all, its decent but not top tier.

What is this "Psychic Choir" you speak of? I know it not.


Sorry. I'm not a Nid player, so i'm only vaguely familiar with them.

Thanks.


Eric

A Psychic Choir is a Godzilla Tyranid army list (5 Carnifexes, 2 Hive Tyrants and some Tyrant Guards) with 3 Zoanthropes all with Psychic Scream and at least one Hive Tyrant with Scream as well (although you can go with all five if you feel like it, I recommend the last HT gets Shadow in the Warp personally).


You then proceed to shoot your opponents to death with your Godzilla's shooting and watch as once you're within 18" of the enemy they start failing their morale checks and running off the board or get pinned by the Gunfexes Barbed Strangler blasts.

It obviously does nothing against Fearless armies but there aren't as many of those out there anymore with the new Chaos codex and plus a Godzilla army is still pretty strong against any army regardless of whether the Screams have an effect or not.

Still, that pretty much leaves it as a "win more" option, doesn't it? It seems pretty gratuitous to me.

You get into close combat and win is the 'what' really.

Using a Choir in a close combat army is not a good idea. More often then not your opponnet wants to run from combat so they can shoot the crap outta the genestealers, et al. And the unit you want running from you so you can cut em down easy are usually fearless.

Wait, there are fewer fearless armies out there?

Who lost fearless??

Stelek wrote:Wait, there are fewer fearless armies out there?

Who lost fearless??

Nobody. But with the new Chaos codex it seems to me there are a few less tournament players using Chaos as a power tournament army and of those that are using Chaos there seems to be a slight downturn of pure Cult (Fearless) armies.


Obviously there are still Fearless armies out there and nobody's saying (at least not me) that a regular Godzilla army is inferior to a Choir Godzilla army, just that the Choir is a very effective tactic against non-Fearless armies and built right it still is a very strong list even without its ability to utilize the Choir effect.

Hmmm I agree Choir can be powerful, was just wondering who lost Fearless (if anyone).

I think once people get the hang of Chaos, we'll see more EC/Nurgle/TS lists and the rest will go away.

Chaos Marines are in my honest opinion, better than the other troops choices Chaos has (Being undivided and khorne).

The Choir is generally used in conjunction with pinning weapons (read barbed stranglers) so you can force pinning tests with a -2 or -3 modifier. Suddenly pinning goes from being an unlikely bonus to a reliable tool.

It's important to remember zoanthropes and tyrants are excellent units in their own right, and well worth including before you consider any possible benefits from psychic scream. The extra points for the scream will often be wasted when you come up against fearless armies, but it's hardly list breaking stuff.

The real limit on this list is the pressure it puts on elite and heavy slots. The zoanthropes take up a heavy slot and the two tyrants will take up both the elite slots. This cuts your heavy slots by one and given most people prefer dakkafex to barbed strangler warriors in their elite slots, you're pretty limited in your access to barbed strangler units. But that's only if you're intent on building a nidzilla style, tournament efficient list. If you're not that interested filling out your list with elite dakkafex and are interested in warriors, suddenly psychic scream makes a whole lot of sense.

Tyrants in elite slots? Baby sign me up. lol jk.

I ran a mass warrior army back when they were beasts.

And were they ever! lol

I run a primarily genestealer list with a HT/3x Zoanthrope psychic choir with pretty good success.

Just like the 'zillas, genestealers are good on their own. Adding -4 or -5 Ld (depending on whether or not I take the second HT) into the mix makes them a lot more likely to run things away (and often run them down).

My standard basic list is HT (VC, PS, other goodies as I feel), 3x zoanthrope (WB, PS), and 3 squads of 8 EC genestealers. I add to it as I see fit, incorporating a mix of biovores, carnifexes, more genestealers, hormagaunts, lictors, raveners, and tyranid warriors. I have had such success with the psychic scream that I no longer consider lists without it, unless I know I'm going up against fearless units or I want to give a weak opponent a chance.

I used the "psychic choir" coupled with the "Hive brood mind" datafax in an Apoc game last week and it was insane. On turn 1, I blasted a 48 inch radius pinning test on my opponents and all the units that were within 18" of the Zoeys and HT's were getting some serious minuses on their tests.

I would not use the choir in standard games, but in Apoc, it is my new favorite tool.

Darrian

winterman wrote:

You get into close combat and win is the 'what' really.

Using a Choir in a close combat army is not a good idea. More often then not your opponnet wants to run from combat so they can shoot the crap outta the genestealers, et al. And the unit you want running from you so you can cut em down easy are usually fearless.

Most of the time anything that runs from genestealers is dead. When they run, they have to roll 1d6+I and win the roll (not tie) in order to not get wiped out. After that the stealers get another 1d6 of movement to try and hit another squad. But really, when you charge in, the goal is to hit as many units at a time as possible. That way, when one runs, you still got the other one stuck. Or if they both run, you've wiped out 2 units.

I thought you were only allowed to assault one unit at a time?

You can assault as many units as you wish, subject to these basic premises.

1) Declare a primary and as many secondary targets as you wish.

2) Roll diff terrain if needed (this is usually BAD).

3) Move your closest to closest against your primary target.

4) Move all subsequent models, engaging as many models in as many enemy units as you can reach and still maintain coherency.

Hope that's clear and helpful.

Yep, and if you play an assault oriented army learn this rule real well because it's a huge difference between success and failures. When I want my own troops to stay locked I will often string my own troops out to engage as much as possible so I don't get shot up in my opponenets shooting phase.

Most of the time anything that runs from genestealers is dead. When they run, they have to roll 1d6+I and win the roll (not tie) in order to not get wiped out. After that the stealers get another 1d6 of movement to try and hit another squad. But really, when you charge in, the goal is to hit as many units at a time as possible. That way, when one runs, you still got the other one stuck. Or if they both run, you've wiped out 2 units.

Of course that all works great if your opponnet has left his units closer then 6" apart (eg allowing multiple charges easier and/or getting locked after a massacre). If he hasn't and he's a shooty opponnet (ie he knows what he is doing), you don't want them to run if it can be helped. Cause you will probably loose the genestealer squad to shooting. Which leads me to believe that choir is useless much of the time for a close combat nid list.

Also you will have to refrain from using it agaisnt any possible shooting moral checks, cause you don't want unit running from your charge range.

Why spend so many points when the rare times you can use the choir, you won't want to.

Contrast that with a shooty nidzilla list, which could always benefit from a squad running from it after taking shooty casualties. And that is why I don't see it as being a great addition to a close combat list, but is a nice addition to a nidzilla list.

Just fyi, but if I so choose I can assault across a 48" breadth.

So can most other people, if they really want to.

The new cult armies are a big fat pile of overpriced crap. Nurgle's about the only one with basic troopers worth buying.

So basically every army except Nurgle lost fearless.

Summary:
Slaanesh lost las/plas squads and daemonettes
Khorne lost the d6" movement and bloodletters, chainaxes, still have no way of actually getting to combat
Tzeentch are marginally better than before, but putting whipped cream on crap doesn't make it dessert
Nurgle got FNP in exchange for zero points, and can now take obliterators and cheap ass daemon princes with rune and T6.

And the only fearless armies really worth playing before were Slaanesh and Slaanesh and also Slaanesh.

You're spot on though, Stelek, that Nurgle is a tough matchup for Choir. sadly it's a very tough matchup but slightly less so for normal Nidzilla.

Choir, however, remains a great choice against any other opponent, particularly Necrons, Tau, Ig and SM.

Yeah, my Slaanesh army got massacred by the rulebook.

It runs well as part of my Tzeentch 'Please be Marines' list.

Who said whipped cream on crap isn't dessert? Hmmm whipped cream....

I actually like the Noise Marines. Just don't use the blastmaster. Then they're decent anti-horde mobile firepower.

Stelek wrote:Tyrants in elite slots? Baby sign me up. lol jk.

Heh, that was a weird old stuff up. Should have said two tyrants will take up both HQ slots, meaning any barbed strangler armed warrior units will be competing with dakkafex for elite slots. Dakkafex are clearly the better unit, but you want as many stranglers as you can get to benefit from the choir.