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Hello,

I am a new comer on this forum but i've been playing from quite some time now and i am used to tournaments. I've been playing the below-mentionned eldar list for a couple months but i am posting it here with the hope drawing the attention of some respected veterans of this community (Longshot, Tergus-cromis, etc ) in order to get constructive feedbacks (ie ;-) ).

(FYI, Special characters are not allowed in most tournaments played in my country).

HQ :
- Farseer:, Eldritch Storm, Runes of warding : 90 pts

He either goes with the firedragons if i don't need the runes of warding or stay hidden somewhere if i need them. The storm (without LoS) and the independant character rules allow him to be safe most of the time

Elite :
- Harlequins (5) with a Shadowseer (+1). Everyone with a Harlequin's kiss : 162 pts
- Fire dragons (5) with an exarch (+1) equiped with a dragon's breath flamer and crack shot : 113 pts
--- They are mounted in a Wave Serpent with TL Eldar missile launchers, Vectored engines, Star engines and spirit stones : 165 pts
- Fire dragons (5) with an exarch (+1) equiped with a dragon's breath flamer and crack shot : 113 pts
--- They are mounted in a Wave Serpent with TL Eldar missile launchers, Vectored engines, Star engines and spirit stones : 165 pts

Troops :
- Guardian jetbikes (3) : 66 pts
- Guardian jetbikes (3) : 66 pts

Heavy Support :
- Falcon with holo-fields, vectored engines, spirit stones, star engines, shuriken canon (x1) : 200 pts
- Fire prism with holo-fields, spirit stones, vectored engines : 180 pts
- Fire prism with holo-fields, spirit stones, vectored engines : 180 pts

Total : 1 500 pts

Unlike the point denial eldar meta mech list (with 2 or 3 falcons and as much harlequins), this one has a higher damage output and thus can have the initiative (whilst one may argue that the 2 ~ 3 falcon + harlequins & fire dragons lists "slightly" lack of fire power or of resilience - depending on the mix). After a lot of games played, my only hesitation is to downgrade one or two Wave Serpent to either TL Eldar missile launchers or TL shuriken canons and to also take the canon off the 2nd jetbikes in order to add two vectored engines on the fire prisms...

Best regards,
Wilme

What is your strategy against Nidzilla or the new ork lists starting to percolate?

Yikes, please don't call me a "veteran of the community." I've never been to a tourney and, until a few months ago, hadn't played 40k since 3rd ed. I just have a big mouth is all.

- Fire dragons (5) with an exarch (+1) equiped with a dragon's breath flamer and crack shot : 113 pts
--- They are mounted in a Wave Serpent with TL bright lances, Vectored engines, Star engines and spirit stones : 180 pts
- Fire dragons (5) with an exarch (+1) equiped with a dragon's breath flamer and crack shot : 113 pts
--- They are mounted in a Wave Serpent with TL bright lances, Vectored engines, Star engines and spirit stones : 180 pts

It seems strange to me that you should give them star engines and the most expensive weapon option. Won't you need to use SE as soon as possible to terrain-hop and minimise exposure (since a Serpent is a far cry from a Falcon, durability-wise)? After dropping off the cargo, I'd expect the Serpents (if they're still alive!) to be in a good position to get side/rear shots on vehicles, if there are more vehicles than you could handle with the FDs, in which case you might as well have gone for cheaper multishot weapons instead.

Guardian jetbikes (3) : 66 pts

Do you find them achieving anything without the shuricannon, or are they just cheap objective grabbers? I find that the cannon is pretty much 90% of their usefulness shooting-wise, and would never field them without.

Interesting list. Not sure about the farseer loadout - I've never found eldritch storm to be that effective, especially compared to some of the other powers, but of course in this list maybe there isn't much to guide or fortune.

You do have more firepower than a 3 falcon list by using Prisims...but I think you'd be more resilient and be able to find the firepower if you dropped the wave serpents, put the fire dragons in falcons, and spent the remaining points on more bikes (shining spears? Warlocks on bikes? Just more guardians on bikes?) You'd have 260 points to spend on them. Unless you have some fortunate terrain I just don't see those wave serpents making it across the board alive against most of the lists I see played nowadays (lots of str 6 and 7 weapons are bad for wave serpents). And a farseer fortuning a group of bikes makes for a really hard unit, as has been discussed ad nausem in another thread.

Eldritch storm is horrible. Ditch it as soon as you can. lol

Give your other Guardian jetbike unit a shuriken cannon.

Wave Serpents can kill high AV vehicles for you, but other than that...they don't do much but die. Give them a spirit stone and be done with it.

All Falcons/Prisms should have a Scatter Laser/Shurcat or Shurcat...and spending the points on the extra move is pointless. Lots of people abuse the rules and get away with it with the star engines, but hey whatever--my personal preference isn't to tank shock anyway.

Oh and get runes of witnessing!

Thanks for theses first replies

Actually the 1st version of the list i posted was a modification of what i do play as a rule. I edited my post to describe my list as i currently play it so as to be more able to answer to questions about how i actually play it.

jfrazell wrote:What is your strategy against Nidzilla or the new ork lists starting to percolate?

If the nidzilla list is well-builded and played by a skilled played, my aim is at doing a minor victory through long range shooting in the early turns and dodging the fight through high mobility (36") & resilience (ideally Wave serpents are totally hidden behind Size 3 cover and with only 9 CT4 S8+ shots, the holo fields generally hold well) in turns 4 to 6.
To counter this, the nidzilla player has to take risks and move out of his covers except with the support carnifex which will have enough range (through i do try to limit LoS of these semi-static snipers by a good positionning). In this case my firepower & mobility give me an edge (since it forces the nidzilla player to spreadout its units if he wants to be within 18" + 6" of my antigrav tanks), the rest is a matter of luck with the dice and not doing stupid mistake with target priority, positionning and units used to attack.

I cannot answer about the new ork lists yet ; the new Codex has not been released in my country as of today.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Yikes, please don't call me a "veteran of the community." I've never been to a tourney and, until a few months ago, hadn't played 40k since 3rd ed. I just have a big mouth is all.

Even for a casual reader of the Dakka dakka forum its your analysis which make you look as a veteran, not the number of your posts

It seems strange to me that you should give them star engines and the most expensive weapon option. Won't you need to use SE as soon as possible to terrain-hop and minimise exposure (since a Serpent is a far cry from a Falcon, durability-wise)? After dropping off the cargo, I'd expect the Serpents (if they're still alive!) to be in a good position to get side/rear shots on vehicles, if there are more vehicles than you could handle with the FDs, in which case you might as well have gone for cheaper multishot weapons instead.

Well, unlike what i posted in the first place, my usual configuration are TL eldar missile launchers. Nonetheless your remark still has (holds ?) ground (30 pts vs 45 pts). I think we both have the same analysis about the Serpent : "(skip)minimise exposure (since a Serpent is a far cry from a Falcon, durability-wise)". To understand my logic, i must add that fire dragons, with their E3 svg4+ non HtH unit statut, are also not very resilient. My argument holds in two points :
1) Few armies can afford not to shake the fireprisms as their fire power is high enough to threaten both footsloggers and mech armies. This means that unless my opponent decides to take risks, a part of his anti-tank fire power is firstly directed to another target than the Serpents (so unless he gets lucky, his risks will give me an edge more often than not). The same logic is true about the falcon (with the harlequins) which has a decent fire power (when not shaken ) and is generally positionned so as to be a immediate threat for my opponent ;
2) Giving, TL Eldar ML, and their blessed 48" range, to the Serpents (plus a very good mobility) allow me to hold them back until i really need them. That way i am not forced to rush in with my VE Serpent & Fire dragons, which against a skilled player spell doom for the Serpent & dragons (after a round of shooting for me if get lucky).

Do you find them achieving anything without the shuricannon, or are they just cheap objective grabbers? I find that the cannon is pretty much 90% of their usefulness shooting-wise, and would never field them without.

I agree with you 100% with this analysis. The catch is that i cannot find 2x10 pts elsewhere on the list to give them shuriken canon (well, at least not without downgrading the global efficiency of the list by taking point elsewhere; imho). With 5 rather resilient tanks, my oppononent generally totally ignore my canonless jetbikes during 4 to 5 turns which increase their survability by a good deal (especially since i take no risk with them given their firepower). In a sense, i don't really miss these 132 pts which are not shooting (given than these point would have to be spend in "Troops" anyway) and their potentiel 48" mobility (+ invulnerable save) in 2 turns is priceless to take objectives in the last couple turns (especially since i have few operational units).

lambadomy wrote:You do have more firepower than a 3 falcon list by using Prisims...but I think you'd be more resilient and be able to find the firepower if you dropped the wave serpents, put the fire dragons in falcons, and spent the remaining points on more bikes (shining spears? Warlocks on bikes? Just more guardians on bikes?) You'd have 260 points to spend on them. Unless you have some fortunate terrain I just don't see those wave serpents making it across the board alive against most of the lists I see played nowadays (lots of str 6 and 7 weapons are bad for wave serpents). And a farseer fortuning a group of bikes makes for a really hard unit, as has been discussed ad nausem in another thread.

It is arguable but anyway, this is an altogether army list philosophy (eventhough some units are the same).

Stelek wrote:Eldritch storm is horrible. Ditch it as soon as you can. lol

We mustn't play it the same way or our opponents must be very very differents from mine then. As far as i am concerned, i reckon that a well played Eldritch storm is the most cost efficiant spell with a mech army (unless you take an archonte on jetbike squadron). Well, it is just imho; your game experience may be different.

Anyway, thanks again to those who left a comment on this list. Please, feel free to add more !
Wilme

Wilme wrote:
If the nidzilla list is well-builded and played by a skilled played, my aim is at doing a minor victory through long range shooting in the early turns and dodging the fight through high mobility (36") & resilience (ideally Wave serpents are totally hidden behind Size 3 cover and with only 9 CT4 S8+ shots, the holo fields generally hold well) in turns 4 to 6.
To counter this, the nidzilla player has to take risks and move out of his covers except with the support carnifex which will have enough range (through i do try to limit LoS of these semi-static snipers by a good positionning). In this case my firepower & mobility give me an edge (since it forces the nidzilla player to spreadout its units if he wants to be within 18" + 6" of my antigrav tanks), the rest is a matter of luck with the dice and not doing stupid mistake with target priority, positionning and units used to attack.

Doesn't seem that you play on 6' x 4' boards.

That's a tournament standard, and essentially gives you 1 turn perhaps 2 to 'hide'.

Eldritch storm is the best for a mech list? You'll have to explain this, given it was laughed at during the last books playtest and laughed at again during this books playtest given the state of the game. Even if you do damage to ride along with a vehicle to protect the Farseer on a bike, once you get within 18" to use it he's vulnerable. Since you run yours on foot...guess I'd probably just ignore it with pretty much every army I have, which from watching many games at GT's that's what everyone else does. So please tell, how's it good?

Hi again,
Just a quick answer: I do play on 6’ x 4’ boards (72” x 48” riiiight ? ? ) and it is precisely the basis of the above-mentioned tactic :
- Dakkafex can deploy up to 12” most of the time (my aim is not at going into a complete mapping of every possible situation) ;
- Their weapon range is 18” ;
- The length of the Falcon & Serpent about 6” (less if you don’t place them at at 90° angle from the table edge).
As long as you deploy at the back of your deployment zone, you have a minimum distance of 12.001” between you and the closest dakkafex, which means 3 turns before being shootable by them. So, for the first three turns your only threats shooting-wise are the Heavy support (Carnifex or Zoanthrope) and winged hive tyrans (unless the other hive tyran is equipped with a venom canon). Given that a fully kitted up heavy support carnifex will have one BS3 S8 and two BS3 F10 shots, you can bet on 1.08 glancing hits against AV12 tank per carnifex and per shooting phase. This is pretty acceptable with 3 holofields tanks and 2 Wave Serpents (only 0,75 glancing hits if the Carnifex choose to fire on a Serpent – and only 1 chance out of 6 to instantly destroy it . . . while having the prism unshaken and able to shoot). Plus, with 36” & 24” movements you have plenty leeway to get out at least 1 to 2 Heavy support Fex per turn if it is what you seek.
As for Elderitch storm, it is next to common knowledge in my tournament. I am sure there is a good tactica on this power on the dakka dakka board somewhere.

Best regards,
Wilme

I dunno if you read the thread about the heavy carnifex loadout but...

My army has 6 BS3 S10 shots, and 6 BS4 S8 shots; all with 36" range.

I will be shooting any vehicles in LOS pretty much the entire game.

Redo the numbers against a [in my honest opinion] properly run 8 MC list.

Thanks for the answers. I await your rejoinder.

brain fart here whats the S 8 shots? (he says ready to steal the idea...)

Guide, fortune, and mindwar are all superior to eldritch storm. Spirit stones and selecting two out of the three are the way to go.

jfrazell wrote:brain fart here whats the S 8 shots? (he says ready to steal the idea...)

I run 3 Fexes with VC's.

I run 2 Tyrants with +1ST, +1BS, and a VC.

VC gives +2 St...and 3 shots from each one.

When 2 flyrants are allowed again, I'll run those with wings but until then they are part of the gunwall.

Lemartes wrote:Guide, fortune, and mindwar are all superior to eldritch storm. Spirit stones and selecting two out of the three are the way to go.

Very very true.

Don't forget taking a Jetbike might cost you 30 points, but gives you a very flexible HQ that if needed can zip across the board and start wacking enemy armor.

Lemartes wrote:Guide, fortune, and mindwar are all superior to eldritch storm. Spirit stones and selecting two out of the three are the way to go.

I can easily asume that since you have been playing and posting on this forum for a very long time your viewpoint is most probably that some things are well-known to be rock solid while other things lack of efficiency and that it is no use of beating a dead horse. I won't blame you for that. Actually, i won't blame you on anything as it is not my intend nor interest. What i can tell you is that as i play in a different country, we most probably have slightly different views on what work well and what utterly rock in our Codex. In some mech list, as mine, Elderitch storm fits perfectly for a handful of reasons :
- It costs very little points (thus reducing points invested in a non operational HQ) ;
- I've no need of fortune as all my units are embarked (except for the jetbikes, which are not very at risk because they are the very last threat to my opponent and the farseer which doesn't need it thanks to his independant character statut) ;
- As for Guide, all my tanks have TL weapons except for the falcon (prisms can TL when needed). And i don't think that many players leave a falcon with 6 harlequins unharmed at any given turn. As for the troops embarqued, they cannot benefit of Guide the turn they disembark...
- Lastly Mind War is not all that impressive once you crunch the numbers...
- It doesn't require a LoS (thus allowing easier targeting and improved survivability) ;
- It really works wonder combined with fire prism (which don't even need to TL their fire to pass AV test in most cases) and, falcons + S8 Wave Serpents ;
- It is also a nice plus against horde armies (IG, gaunt heavy nidlist, tau army with kroots, ork as well i guess) eventhough it is not its main purpose ;
- It is a squadron killer ; nothing stops a squadron of 3 vyper, 2~3 war walkers, 2 LS tornados, 2 piranhas (etc) like Elderich storm. Hint : read the penetration rules carefully - you will notice that there is no problem of having the strenght of the attack divided by 2 when the center hole is not touching the vehicule...plus it is a blast (which entails 2 penetrations roll against open-topped vehicules).

Well, this is not even a complet list of all the tricks you can pull with the E. Storm. Now, in the end, we are just talking about the game and we will never meet in tourney. If your opinion is set on that spell, well, it is good for you. I have nothing to gain by trying to convince you further...

Best regards,
Wilme

PS : as for the nidzilla list, i've been playing against enough 8 MC lists to know that i can hold the ground against a 5 venom canons, 3-5 stranglers, 3 dakkafex etc. list . . . don't forget that we are talking 1 500 points here, it leaves you very few points for anything else. If you think the above-mentionned list would be an easy match for your nids then so be it. But as far as i am concerned, allow me not to be scared with an average of 5 glancing penetration per turn, i just think that i could put up a good match...

Bullet point all ya like. It might work in your gaming group, but in tournaments ES is the suck.

1500 points I have 18 GS, 28 gaunts, and 8 TMC....I don't think it's 'easy', I just think what I think of all Eldar armies. Kill everything, stun the falcons, and wait for the drop.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Yikes, please don't call me a "veteran of the community." I've never been to a tourney and, until a few months ago, hadn't played 40k since 3rd ed. I just have a big mouth is all.

Never complain when someone blows hot fluff up your dress, it could be a cold day.

Anyhow I'm no vet of the community, either but if you keep the list with the listed models, you have 13 options that either need to be added, eliminated or changed.

1. Eldritch Storm has done.... it killed a space marine for me last year (2006, this year nada). Fortune is better, in this list guide or doom is best.
2-6. For 10pts the shuriken cannon upgrade on any serpent or falcon chassis its pretty much a no brainer.
7-8. Eldar Missle Launchers? No sir, they are only good for punching medium armored vehicles, go for a scatter laser (hordes, starcannon for MEQ or 2+ stuff, or brightlance for the big armor and 2+ monstrous creatures)
9-10. Shuriken cannons on the jetbikes please, now you can do something with them.
11. I wouldn't waste a space in the falcon for the farseer to ride in, he can only do stuff outside vehicles, give him a jetbike and singing spear.
12-13. Strip all the fun Xmas ornaments off the fire dragons, no exarch, just 6 guys per squad.

That should beef up your list a bit, twice as much firepower anyhow, and its still your list. I prefer more h2h, less serpents, eldrad or a biketarch. I'm out.

*Sights* The hog never looks higher than his head

As i said, i won't waste time to argue with sentences thrown bluntly with no mathematical or thoughtful game analysis (and no, saying something with cool doesn't make it any closer of being true).

Well, at least tegeus-Cromis' question gave me food for thought...

Wilme

Edit - just an exemple of what i mean as i am only trying to get constructive feedback and not just look like a smartass :

2-6. For 10pts the shuriken cannon upgrade on any serpent or falcon chassis its pretty much a no brainer.

At 1 500 pts you better get high value for the point invested as "efficiency destroyers" won't be weighted as in 1,850 or 2,000 points. Now, tell me, what is the marginal gain against let's say a SM of taking a shuriken canon for 10 pts instead of the free shuriken catapults ?
It is 0.41 SM dead versus 0.25 dead. The difference is thereby of 0.16 dead for 10 points ; the return on investment (ROI) for 100 pts is pretty simple : (0.16 / 10) x 100 = 1.634. So in terms of raw efficiency, this option is basically less efficiant than most option in the eldar Codex.
Secondly, what is the gain of the +2 strenght gain to a total of S6 ? Basically, you can shoot at tank with AV of 12...not bad, but the chance of passing through the armor is of only 25% and the range is still 24" (see below).
Thirdly, ok, you gain 12" range wise compared to the TL shuriken catapult. Now, is the 0.41 dead is worth exposing a 175 pts Wave Serpent with 100+ points inside ? There is no good answer to this question, it's just a matter of choice but at least i try to give thought to the choices i am taking...
My point is that i don't pretend to be right or to hold any kind of Truth, it is very possible that i may have missed something in my analysis but at least, as a sign of respect, i give you the facts behind my statements.

Laf. Was that directed my way?

possibly

ok i know gak about eldar so i cant be of help but for this guy, avoid terms like "no brainer", because he insists on using his. bring arguments

thanks

Shurikan Cannons are nearly always worth their points. Your facts...well...in the WH40k I play the rear of most vehicles isn't well armoured at all. It is an additional weapon he must deastroy before popping your tank and the jetbikes arn't worth 66 points without them.
But you're right on the marines...maybe you should just shoot at something else.

My Farseer would ride a jetbike, wield a spear and cast guide. The soulstone/2nd power seems a bit too expensive for me. I'd rather buy a cheapo Autarch. (Hope the name is spelled right...)

Stelek wrote:[...]stun the falcons[...]

Do what with the Falcons?

You stun the Falcons/Fire Prisms.

So they can't shoot.

Like tonight, did pretty well with my Tyranids and my Tau. I killed 4/6 Falcons/Prisms and immobilized the last 2/6.

Lots of shooting stuns, takes weapons off...once immobile they're killable although I did run into a flaw in my Nid list...I shot the Falcons into immobile status but I still could only glance it. lol oops!

Maybe you're mixing up stunned and shaken results? Or do people not put Soulstones on the Falcons they throw at you?

Course they do. Shaken not stirred. They can't shoot, that's all I care about.

When you have alot of shooting, you make the 3 eldar heavy tanks not shoot you first; then shoot anything else you can see, and then you conccentrate fire on the heavy tanks to try and take them down.

Duh...I know how Eldar tanks work and what to do best against them...I was just a bit confused with you messing it up with stunned and shaken.
But now I know better...if Steleks says stunned he wants his martini shaken and not stirred.

A nice thread you have goin here. Ill try to add some pointers with explanations. Especially the minimal HQ and troops seem a bit like they were included more to fill the requirements then because of inherent strength. Ill start with a wishlist and follow up with ways to free the points.

1. HQ: - Is escalation an issue where you play?

This would be incentive to use an autarch instead of your Farseer. But even if you never play escalation at all, an Autarch should be considered. He can ad 2 long range good ap, bs 5 shots, is pretty much untargetable near Skimmers and provides an efficient assault unit for 155 pts. For me he perfectly fits into the theme of a rather shooty, mobile, point denial-army that can assault at a good opportunity.


2. Troops: - 3 Jetbikes with or without shuricannon will often either hide and contribute little (shuricannon and jetbike move) or they will give an easy target to low strength weapons/assaults that would otherwise be wasted against your tanks. Grabbing distant objectives isnt a problem for your list with or without the jetbikes given your other mobile stuff.

You might use 5 Pathfinders for 120 pts instead of one Jetbike unit. These go with the resilient and ranged shooting theme and should fit on the board easily. You have one less unit to hide behind terrain now, because Pathfinders go right into terrain. They will be activly contributing most of the game due to 36" range and can hold your own tablequarter or even infiltrate (and deny infiltration) where needed. Finally they fit into a Falcon so last turn redeploys are possible too. From pure math they do well against TMCs and even Marines.

3. Firedragons: - Analysing the metagame I dont find a real need for two units of Firedragons. They are very good of course, but lets look at what they kill and who else might cover these areas even better:

- Monolith - Firedragons dont help much.
- Landraider - the ideal target but rarely seen and can be ignored to a degree. How often do you even see more then one in 1500 pts?
- Predators, Leman Russ etc. - good target, but side shots with str6-8 from mobile guns stun/kill these almost more reliably, because you can keep your distance and have more then one try.
- Heavy infantry - str 6 multishot weapons do the trick as well especially once you consider cover. Due to higher rate of fire the outcome is more predictable.

Id advise to drop one unit of Dragons. Instead equip your Falcon with 7str 6 shots and consider Warp Spiders.


4. To free points Id lose all vectored and star engines. They are good of course but rather situational and thus least essential.

- The Falcon is so tough, he rarely needs vectored engines.
- Prisms do benefit from vectored engines, but at best they still dont score and likey die fast once immobilised.
- From experience you want to shoot with your tanks when you get first turn, so half the time you wont use star engines first turn. Later on tankshocking isnt important enough to justify lots of points for a slight range-improvement. Grabbing objectives just needs a bit more planning and star engines can be dropped.

5. Heres a list that uses most of your models. Imo it is stronger then the original and Im pretty sure it will even fare better comp-score wise:


1 Autarch (HQ) @ 155 Pts
Laser Lance; Shuriken Pistol; Reaper Launcher; Plasma & Haywire Grenades;
Mandiblasters; Jetbike; Linked Shuriken Catapults

6 Harlequin Troupe including Shadowseer (Elites) @ 162 Pts
Harlequin's Kiss (x6); Shuriken Pistol (x6); Flip Belt; Holo-suit

6 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 226 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs

1 Wave Serpent @ [130] Pts
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Linked Missile Launchers
Spirit Stones

5 Pathfinders (Troops) @ 120 Pts
Pathfinders; Shuriken Pistol; Ranger Long Rifle

10 Guardian Storm Squad (Troops) @ 222 Pts
Shuriken Pistol & CCW (x8); Flamer (x2)

1 Wave Serpent @ [130] Pts
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Linked Missile Launchers
Spirit Stones

5 Warp Spiders (Fast Attack) @ 110 Pts
Deathspinner

1 Falcon (Heavy Support) @ 185 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Scatter Laser; Pulse Laser
Spirit Stones
Holo-fields

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Prism Cannon
Spirit Stones
Holo-fields

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Linked Shuriken Catapults; Prism Cannon
Spirit Stones [10]
Holo-fields [35]


Models in Army: 38


Total Army Cost: 1500


Greetings.

Farseers are by far surperior to overcosted Autarchs. For escalation get an minimal cost Autarch. Never take no Farseer.

Storm Guardians? You're joking, right?

And those Warp Spider squad should be a bit bigger, at least 8 space elfs. And an exarch.

Why do the Harlies only carry 5 Kisses? Do I miss something?

I like the list. If it works for you then keep at it. To many times people have their own ideas of what a list should be and want to change everyone elses list to their own.

You have a very mobile list. Adding foot troops will give you a static firebase the enemy can assault. Don't do it. Keep everything mobile so you can better dictate where the assaults can happen.

Your HQ is fine. It's always nice to have Runes of Warding and that's about as cheap as you can get it. Fine. You don't have to many units that would benifit from fortune/guide so the Storm is acceptable. Spin heavies for side/back shots, annhilate light armor formations and make those some troops take a pinning test. It's not as bad as others think, once again trying to make every list just like theirs.

The only thing I would consider is to give the bikes squads a cannon. You don't have to use it all the time, but It offers more tactical flexibility for the units in case you need it. To cover the costs I would suggest taking Star Engines off the Wave Serpents. It's nice to move an extra 12" when you want to secure an area for assault, but you can't disembark after using the star engines and the Dragons won't suffer to much from it. Use those 30pts to add in 2 cannons for the troops and possibly a scatter laser for the Falcon. It's an extra str 6 shot for the falcon at a better range to help limit LOS back at it.

Sigh. No ones trying to use Star Engines to boost their tank shock, are they? I hope that's not what you are trying to insinuate.

For 162 pts all Harleys have kisses. I corrected it.

Depending on how much you want to change things DarthDigglers advise might be best. Thouse would be my first changes when keeping everything very close to the original as well.

Stelek, you mean that one cant use starengines to improve tankshocking? Please elaborate.

Like the author, I wont comment on "common sense suggestions" that come without reasons.

Wilme: That's a pretty subtle list for me, since I usually get about as subtle as "CHARGE!" I wouldn't be expecting something like that, so would in all likelyhood get headhunted by it. Sorry you got some unsatisfactory answers here, but the flamers stay pretty warmed up from what I have seen. Where are you from?

Stelek: I've been thinking about your advice, never could get your shots to add up as they always seemed to come up short. Now I realise you just weren't posting what you were doing with the other weapon symbiote option. WHat do you tak on your gunwall zillas for second weapon symbiote? Just ST or RC to get out cheap and fluffly, since fangs and claws are ALWAYS in style on a tyranid list?