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Something has always bugged me about Loyalist Space Marine tactics. Essentially we are told that Space Marines act as a strike force using fast moving Drop Pods and Thunderhawks to hit a section of the battlefield in a shock and awe tactic to flank/ breakout/ distract the enemy. Now extended engagements may lead to defensive postions. etc. But the initial plan is relatively the same.

The thing that bugs me is why not any Space Marine figher craft. Why do I think there is such a gapping hole in the idea that Space Marines can reliably drop thunderhawks into battle without any sort of anti-aircraft support. Is it just an awful thing to think that Space Marines shouldn't have at least a Thunderbolt equivalent? SOme sort of Space/Atmosphere figher?

Well but aren't Thunderhawks rather well-armoured and they have a couple guns and that huge cannon thing. I imagine that they're just more of a fighter/transport hybrid. Space Marines do get the best equipment. Fluffwise and there is a thunderhawk just for transport. So I assume that the normal Thunderhawk is probably much wuicker in comparison and possibly a match for Thunderbolts and their equivalents.
Just my thoughts on this theme.

Wouldn't the Marines simply request a fighter escort from the Imperial Navy? If it was a Space Marine Chapter mission, then maybe they would simply teleport behind enemy lines!

I think they would have to demand Imperial Navy support. I don't know if the fluff is out there, but I could see that being a consequence of the post-Heresy restructuring. Pre-heresy they may have had their own fighters, but post-Heresy they were removed to reduce the autonomy of the Chapters.

Dietrich I think you are correct on this matter.
But aren't there any books at all with stuff like this?
I think maybe GW should do a book purely on short stories and organisation of the space marine chapters.

Imperial Navy Support notwithstanding it still makes greater since to me that the Chapter would be structured to have some autonomy in it's fighting forces.

For example, the Marines don't have to call in armored support, they have their own equivalents to match their style.

Besides, do Thunderbolts etc. have atmospheric landing ability? Are Space Marines supposed to rely on the Imperial Navy to support thier thunderhawks in space and the upper atmoshpere.

It make more sence to me that the Marines would have another landing support craft to support the thunderhawks, maybe nothing with a bombing potential, but a small support fighter that can escort Thunderhawks from ship to ground.

Congratulations on your 1000th post.
I've got to agree with you but without any evidence it would seem that marines only aircraft are thunderhawks and land speeders. Kind of sad for the best equipped fighting force in the imperium

who would fly the planes?? Marines?? waste of time. They might get an escoert but they usually dont need it with drop pods as they fly down quite fast

Space Marines fly Thunderhawks. Hell, they even fly Speeders.

And you can't tell me that drop pods move that fast. Its a matter of physics, you are talking about a pod that transports 10 people from space to the ground. Either it is going to fast that is becomes a crater when it it's the ground, or at some point the things start to slow their decent.

Still leaves the gaping hole in the idea that any races fighters can't intercept them. You telling me that a few wings of eldar fighters can't cause some damage to a Drop Pod and/or thunderhawk assault?

Mahu wrote:
Still leaves the gaping hole in the idea that any races fighters can't intercept them. You telling me that a few wings of eldar fighters can't cause some damage to a Drop Pod and/or thunderhawk assault?

Fortunately our friend Battlefleet Gothic is there to fill in the fluff hole:

http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/lrb/A_ImperialVessels.pdf (Go the Space Marine Fleets section, 2nd page)

Rather than the bombers and fighters employed by Imperial Navy forces, the Adeptus Astares make extensive use of the Thunderhawk Gunship . . .

Thunderhawk gunships combine the abilities of assault boats and fighters . . . A Thunderhawk counter that is intercepted by enemy fighters or moves onto an enemy ordnance marker removes the enemy as fighers would. However, as they are extremely resilient, roll a dice when this happens. On a score of 4+, do not remove the Thunderhawk marker (insert more misc. rules/clarifications)

Basically the Thunderhawk is sufficiently deadly in space engagements to blast enemy fighters away on their approach to the foe. As a result they do not employ other attack craft. I imagine that in an atmospheric engagement it would rely on its defensive capabilities to survive until they have successfully disgourged their cargo.

Hey Beef didn't you make a space marine plane a while back? Did you do any rules for it?

Why Yes i did make one witha marine in and No i did not bother with VDR rules. i just used the rules for the thunderbolt fighter from the imperial armour books. BS 3 is crap and not marine like but most of the guns were twin linked so it was ok.

Nice looking A-7 (?) Corsair, btw.

I'd imagine that when the SM are going to drop pod an area, they'll suppress it with an orbital strike or two before hand. interface fighter/escorts would only serve as extra targets for enemy ack-ack.
Thunderhawks as noted, can easily take care of themselves in the air (may not be as nimble as fighters, but can take a bashing and come you swinging).

Who cares how the boys get there? It's a 28mm minis game with no groundscale, no timescale, no attempt to represent anything equivalent to the warfare of any period and a deliberately unrealistic backstory. 40k is Yahtzee porn.

...and I've got to complement you on that convesion, beef. Right pleasant to look at...conceptually it makes me thing of the Whirlwinds I was building on 1/72 M1A2 chassis prior to scrapping the whole thing in disgust with how poorly drinking straws could be held together with plastic cement.

I think it would be a waste of time for SM to put resources into a group of fighter jets, they aren't in the air long enough to need them and Thunderhawks can hold their own anyway.

I've almost finished my space marine strike fighter, I'm just waiting on two final assault cannons to come in hopefully this weekend. Then I'll post some pics and the data sheet.

Again with the threadromancy!!! Aiieeeee!

Wow. So its official now. The Dark Age of Technology was the '70's.

chromedog wrote:Nice looking A-7 (?) Corsair, btw.

I'd imagine that when the SM are going to drop pod an area, they'll suppress it with an orbital strike or two before hand. interface fighter/escorts would only serve as extra targets for enemy ack-ack.
Thunderhawks as noted, can easily take care of themselves in the air (may not be as nimble as fighters, but can take a bashing and come you swinging).

Actually, it seems more like a F-8 Crusader with the nose cone of an A-7. It was that little air intake on the shoulder at the wing base.

If you look up the description for the Chaos Hell Talons in the IA books, they say the fighters are flown by Servitors (Thus BS 3...guess they refuse to pay the extra bucks for a upgrade). Makes sense and keeps to the same logic expressed already, why would a Marine want to be confined to a fighter. The Horus Heresy Books talk about the Warhawks and and Stormhawks. I don't know if those are just supposed to be transports like the Thunderhawks, but at least this may be some kind of precedent on Marine Fighters (er except it still follows the whole breaking up to reduce autonomy post Heresy).

That all being said, i would love to see the rules for a strictly Marine Fighter.

Marines used to be able to use Thunderbolts and Marauders in 2nd edition Epic, and there have been a few other hints here and there, mostly in older fluff. Anyone remember the Orgus Flyer from Rogue Trader?

While servitors might make good pilots, I have to admit that a man with two hearts could probably withstand more G forces than a normal human, giving him an advantage in a dogfight.