Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so i want to start an ork army but really like guard models.
i was thinking of mutating some guard and making a counts as list for orks. do you guys think that this is too far of a stretch?
i was going to use basic guardsmen as boys andgear em up with gas masks and tubing to show some sort of possible drug enhancement to account for the strength boost and i'd use ogres as nobs.
it would sort of be kinda like a lost and the damned list using the ork list.
of course all weapons would be something similar so as to be idenitifed easily but fluff wise does it sound silly?


as a second thought i was kicking around the idea of orkizing marines but i cant for the life of me think of a way to justify a 3+ save only counting as a 6+
i thought about maybe turning them into an undead theme therefore the armor would be bullet ridden and worthless etc but i dont know how this sounds.
they would have skulls for heads and arms on a few etc to create the undead feel.

what do ya think?

Orks to LATD could work.

Drug enhanced loyalists less so.

ill second that,

Just use the jungle fighters.

No.

GW is moving away from these types of armies. IG are IG, Orks are Orks, What you play is what the army is.

"Counts as" here is the same reason that we are mad about the direction the rules are going.( IE simplified to the point that GW is giving you the army list without control to what to put into it.)

I think, personally, that you should use the orks in the same sceme as Pirate/ scavenger types that are ork sympatizers and live off of the orks droppings. They follow around behind the orks and fight alongside them, much to the orks amusement. As with GORKAMORKA, There were humies that acted like orks.

Use them as space born digga's.
As with the human auxileries with the tau, The orks humans can mob up, are decked out as orks, and use the same mob rule as the orks do.

( Just a suggestion, not that I have around four squads that I do the same thing with, but cant play them now because everyone acts like a duche bag when I pull them out and explain their backstory.)

Grot 6 wrote:No.

GW is moving away from these types of armies. IG are IG, Orks are Orks, What you play is what the army is.

"Counts as" here is the same reason that we are mad about the direction the rules are going.( IE simplified to the point that GW is giving you the army list without control to what to put into it.)

I think, personally, that you should use the orks in the same sceme as Pirate/ scavenger types that are ork sympatizers and live off of the orks droppings. They follow around behind the orks and fight alongside them, much to the orks amusement. As with GORKAMORKA, There were humies that acted like orks.

Use them as space born digga's.
As with the human auxileries with the tau, The orks humans can mob up, are decked out as orks, and use the same mob rule as the orks do.

( Just a suggestion, not that I have around four squads that I do the same thing with, but cant play them now because everyone acts like a duche bag when I pull them out and explain their backstory.)

To be polite, I could give a CENSORED where GW is moving.

If you want to put the effort into it then go for it. Its your list, your minis, and your game. Its really similar to LATD ideas i've seen recently. Go for it. Some will like it, some won't. That shouldn't matter to you outside of a tournament. Even there if you get it accepted by the tourney organizer than you're good to go.

Make everything of a type the same to avoid confusion.

I would say you could do it. In GorkaMork there was the human race of Digga's that acted like orks. So you have the fluff to back you up to use IG as orks. Weirdboyz might be a little difficult to explain but if you are just going to use IG as regular orks I don't see a problem. A lot of ork players were using orks as IG so I don't see why it can't go the other way. I had a similar idea I just never got around to building them.
Space Marines I don't think would work or would take a lot of converting to pull it off. IG would be a easier fit.

thanks a lot guys.
i have a few ideas i want to try so why the heck not.
if i get my proto types together ill try to get some pics up.
thanks again.

I wouldn't have any problem with it as long as I knew what everything in your army was. The Imperium is big and anything is possible as long as both players can wrap their brains around it.

It's all good as long as you explain things before hand and the weapons modeled right is whats important to me.

stonefox wrote:Just use the jungle fighters.

Thats what I first thought. When the Armageddon World Campaign was going on, there was an article in WD about Catachans armed with and using Ork weapons. I think I remember some kind of army list.

Or just use'em as Grots...I heard of one dude who was doing an army based on an Ork/human society where the humans occupied a tier a bit above Grots. Not hard to see little weenie Guardsmen as S2 T2 after all.

I think the most common problem you'll have with something like this is that Imperial Guardsmen already HAVE rules in Warhammer 40k. It's not like you're bringing in Beastmen, which don't have 40k rules, or miniatures from a different company. Even if you were to explain to me every single guy before the battle, I'm still going to think Toughness 3 whenever I see a guardsman because that's what I've know for the 13 years I've been playing. It's not a dig at you, it's just how people are wired. One of the biggest advantages of this game is that you can physically look across the table and see what your opponent is fielding and knowing the models' capabilities by sight. This goes against that grain.

JFrazell, your Lost and the Damned army was different, as those were Fantasy models which don't have 40k rules. I could look at that Shoggoth and think "Carnifex", no problem. Looking at a lieutenant and thinking "Nob" would be very difficult indeed.

I would play you, but because of that whole conditioning thing Iorek was talking about, I would need it to be extensively converted so that someone could look at it and immediately think " big mutants " rather than humans with axes.

Iorek, respectfully, I believe this is the key for me

i was going to use basic guardsmen as boys andgear em up with gas masks and tubing to show some sort of possible drug enhancement to account for the strength boost and i'd use ogres as nobs.
it would sort of be kinda like a lost and the damned list using the ork list.

In essence we're really talking an LATD stand in list to me. As my Niddies are an extension of an LATD and an attempt to sue them, I see this as a similar attempt for LATD like forces.

Outside of tournaments, if you're agood guy, then I'll play with paper chits. It really doesn't bother me.

I am not a big fan of counts as armies. It is too easy for an opponent to make a tactical mistake, so to me being a good sport means not doing it.

- G

What can I say Green Blow? You're just wrong wrong really really wrong

Counts as represents everything that was good about GW-making an army around your personal idea, making that idea a reality, and having fun. Otherwise you might as well play pre-painted figures.

Jfrazell, as long as it's done with substantial conversion work and a clear effort to prevent confusion for opponents, I agree.

Problems are most likely to arise when people don't put in the work needed, or are inconsistent with their conversions.

For a lot of us the modeling is part of it too. I would not play with paper chits, even with a friend (okay, maybe once, if he bought the beer).

To be honest the last thing I want to see is what appears to be one army then find out it is actually another... for example an IG army that counts as a Space Marine army. Now on the other hand if someone want to use the IG rules to simulate squats I would be okay with that.

- G

How about squats* to simulate Space Marines?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery.jsp?gid=7

*Well, really converted Dwarves, mostly, except for the bikes & HQ.

Green Blow Fly wrote:To be honest the last thing I want to see is what appears to be one army then find out it is actually another... for example an IG army that counts as a Space Marine army. Now on the other hand if someone want to use the IG rules to simulate squats I would be okay with that.

- G

I don't think it would be an issue if you knew before hand. A well converted force could use ork rules quite excellently. Modified crapachans for normal boys (I mean they are buffer than marines), regular guard for shootier elements. As Mannahin noted,this is an excuse to make a conversion idea a reality.