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So I played with my Madhammer and his battlegroup (to 350) yesterday against legion. It was a quick game, we had to finish in the middle, but it was instructive in a lot of ways.

I fielded (@350 points)
Madhammer
Driller
1 blaster
1 Gunner
Alexia (Risen & Thralls)
Eyriss

In retrospect, Eyriss didn't really do anything for this list. Otherwise, I like the core and am trying to figure out how to get it to 500. I'm almost certainly swapping out the elf for a Bokur (on Madhammer). I'm tempted to add another gunner as well, or another driller (yeah, two drillers), or both (!). Is there something else I should be looking at?

Other merc stuff I have: (*=unassembled/unpainted)
Gorman (could be nice backup for Alexia),
Kell (who I'd also seriously consider, just 'cause he'd give some nice extra shooty),
Sam Horne & Devil Dogs* (not so excited by this; expensive and I'd want to run her with a talon or Vanguard, I'd think, and I haven't picked up either)
Reinholdt (again, doesn't do much for Madhammer, as he only has three shots)
Alten Ashley (redundant with Kell?)
Another Driller*
Another Blaster*
Another Gunner*

Happy to entertain other thoughts as well...

Kell and Alten tend to fulfill similar roles on the battlefield, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take both. Lots of Cryx players take two Pistol Wraiths.

Gorman is always good to have.

How about some of the Hammerfall guys, just to keep with the dwarven theme. I've not seen them played much, so I can't comment.

Steelheads would be good too. They're excellent at protecting flanks.

Hrmn, and that *would* give me a rhulic 'jack marshal to run one of the gun-bunnies...

Any thoughts on a good proxy model for Dwarven Steelheads?

http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=498&ref=FRNAEL03&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=10

I'm a fan of these, but they'd probably look out of place
next to PP stuff.

Neat! I'd have to see one next to a PP dwarf though.

How many PP dwarves have we seen anyway?

Two warcasters and Hammershields?

Gorten, Durgen, Hammerfalls, Herne (without Jonne), Lord Rockbottom, plus a bunch of IKRPG figs. That's about it.

PP dwarves tend more toward Kev White's cleanshaven, rugged short dudes archetype rather than the tolkieneque bearded Mr. Potato Head.

Only thing I could think would be some of the old Warhammer plastic Dwarves with Hammerfall heads and brass rod halberds. Or the Cygnar City Guard halberds from the IK range.

Hrmn. There's a thought. Any sense how the Hammerfall heads look on dwarves (I assume you mean the 6th ed. guys)?

syr8766 wrote:

Is there something else I should be looking at?

Infantry!

I'd second the idea of a unit of Hammerfall or Steelheads, heres an idea for a proxy for Rhulic Steelheads too.

http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Frames/CLT/Items/CLT-211.html

You really need at least some infantry to get maximum use out of Alexia.

As for 'jack marshalling with the Hammerfall, it's generally not great. The Driller and Rockram really need more than 1 pseudo-focus that the JM gives them. It also means you don't get the boosted to hit and damage rolls on the Gunners...

Ah yes. The Kev White Celtos dwarves. Rockin'

How about...

Durgen Madhammer
Ghordson Driller
Grundback Blaster
Grundback Gunner
Alexia Ciannor
Ogrun Bokur
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (10)
Herne and Jonne

497.

Or if you want to go Seaforge...

Durgen Madhammer
Ghordson Driller
Grundback Blaster
Grundback Gunner
Ogrun Bokur
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (8)
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (8)
Herne and Jonne

498 points.

And you do know your original list is 360 points, yeah?

;-p

Yeah, the other guy was a little over too. It was a cas game, no worries.

I like the first list but I'm worried about speed: it's VERY slow, which is fine if I want to play defensively, but Madhammer strikes me as a pretty offensive caster (to the point of being almost suicidal)...Usually when I play defensively it's with my khador, and I either have ways to speed my army up or slow the other guy down. Madhammer has neither. Is that a concern? Should it be? Or do I just prime the risen, put 'em in the front (or around Durgen) and move everyone up full speed?

What about swapping out H&J for Aiyana and Master Holt? A little extra shooty and some more supportive spells to boost the offensive power of the hammerfalls etc. Also: any sense of Madhammer with sea dogs? Or is that such a points investment that I'm better off with a pirate caster (mmmmmn, Fiona...)?

syr8766 wrote:

I like the first list but I'm worried about speed: it's VERY slow, which is fine if I want to play defensively, but Madhammer strikes me as a pretty offensive caster (to the point of being almost suicidal)...Usually when I play defensively it's with my khador, and I either have ways to speed my army up or slow the other guy down. Madhammer has neither. Is that a concern? Should it be? Or do I just prime the risen, put 'em in the front (or around Durgen) and move everyone up full speed?

Well, they are Dwarfs... I don't think the speed is too much of a worry, I've never used Madhammer and only have limited experience with Gorten, but I tend to be pretty aggressive when I play, and generally spen the first turn running my entire army up the table... Just watch with Durgen, it's better to run and not cast, rather than charge your own model. It's only an inch difference but he's got Reach...

syr8766 wrote:

What about swapping out H&J for Aiyana and Master Holt? A little extra shooty and some more supportive spells to boost the offensive power of the hammerfalls etc. Also: any sense of Madhammer with sea dogs? Or is that such a points investment that I'm better off with a pirate caster (mmmmmn, Fiona...)?

TBH, I've got the pirate book , but I've not really given it a good going-over yet. Still waiting on the minis to arrive too. Sea Dogs, as far as I can see, really need the benefits of the solos to make them worthwhile. And that is going to eat up a lot of points. I dunno if it's just me, but I try to stick to a theme army, so I'd go for either Dwarfs or Pirates.

Still, I'll have a read over the books and see what I can come up with.

And going by the models you have available, it looks like you'll be sticking to 4Star Syndicate, right?

My feeling with the Sea Dogs is that you need more of
the Sea Dog interactions to make them useful. However,
I guess you could make a basic advance deploy unit by
getting Sea Dogs with Mr. Walls.

malfred wrote:My feeling with the Sea Dogs is that you need more of
the Sea Dog interactions to make them useful. However,
I guess you could make a basic advance deploy unit by
getting Sea Dogs with Mr. Walls.

Or go Seaforge and take Hammerfall and Bokur as an AD unit. 11 points more for the minimum sized unit.

Someone REALLY likes the idea of Searforge

Lots of good stuff to consider. I'll play with points (not, not that way gaarew ) and post a revised list this week.

Just messin' around with some lists @500 pts

List 1: have cake and eat it too
Madhammer
Blaster
Gunner
Driller
Bokur
Alexia
Kell
Herne & Jonne
Hammerfalls +1

List 1a
Madhammer
Blaster
Gunner
Driller
Bokur
Alexia
Herne & Jonne
Hammerfalls full

List 2: HOW many solos?
Madhammer
Blaster
Gunner
Driller
Bokur
Alexia
Kell
Gorman di Wulfe
Hammerfalls 8/10

List 2a
Madhammer
Blaster
Gunner
Driller
Bokur
Alexia
Kell
Gorman di Wulfe
Aiyana & Holt
??

So I played Madhammer again tonight against Cryx. Neither army was particularly optimized.

I had:
Durgan
Gunner
Blaster
Driller
Bokur (Madhammer)
Alexia
Bokur (Alexia)
Kell
Gorman di Wulf

He had
Denegra
3 chickens
Slayer
Horrower
Skarlock
pistol wraith
Bokur (Denegra)

The game pretty much as you'd expect. I ADed Kell, kept the driller and bokur close, and jockeyed for position, taking pot-shots with Kell and buster, while he played keep-away with his undead units from Alexia and moved up the chickens for some arc node action. Some surprises: the pistol wraith ended up getting around the bokur and killing Alexia (thereby wiping out a primed Risen unit), while the skarlock and harrower ended up doing very little.

In the end, I lost after some REALLY bad rolling with the driller and Durgen, and ended up in a bad position, with Denegra able to whup up on Madhammer with full focus. Oops. Fun game though: I managed to kill off all his 'jacks, bokur and the pistol wraith, I just couldn't seal the deal.

Things I learned :
1. Gunners and Blasters rock. Their ARM is just high enough and powerful blast just kicks it. While the Blaster was not quite right for this encounter (not enough infantry), I managed to line up a sweet back-arc shot on the Harrower (and the Slayer) toward the end of the game. Between them and Kell, it was game over.
2. Kell is a nice bonus. He won't win the game, but the two shots and Lurk were awfully nice.
3. The Driller: He's not a Juggernaut, but oh boy can he dish it out. Even when I rolled badly, he did crazy damage.
4. Infantry: as much as people say he's an infantry 'caster, I don't know that I saw that so much. Could just be the situation, though.
5. Madhammer is absolutely suicidal as a caster. Buster was kind of 'meh', but his hammer was really, truly awesome (and I never had a chance to use backblast).

I clearly need to play him a little more, but I'm thinking something a little more 'jack heavy and less infantry. Or rather, different infantry to give him some more ranged attacks to soften up the enemy before contact is made. Something like:

Madhammer
Driller
Gunner
Gunner
Blaster
Bokur (madhammer)
Alexia
Bokur (Alexia)
Herne & Jonne

I do want to see how Aiyana and Holt change the dynamic, though. I think their boosts and shooting could make a difference.
Still toying with it, though.

The only thing I can think of is Primed. You get 9x the fun
when you place it on a full unit as opposed to on a single
warjack. It's a liability as well, but that can be prevented
with skirmish formation.

I think it would be funny to run Highborn and then use
Primed on a unit of Risen, for example.

Also his feat encourages high volume of fire as opposed to
heavy concentrated fire. 10 hammerfell shots will cause
10 damage, minimum, against a warjack or warbeast.

Heck, that Risen mob will wreak havoc on beasts and
jacks while under the feat.

Oh, absolutely. Risen stay in. It just happened that Alexia didn't do it for me this game, but Primed Risen as either a bodyguard (extra focus) or just to blow things up, fo sho.

I won't give up on the idea of heavy infantry yet. I want to do some more playtesting. I need to proxy some Hammerfalls and see what happens.

I usually run this list with grunback but it will work with subing in Madhammer also. 3 gunners, 2 blasters, 2 Bokurs, and as many Hammer falls as you can get. One bokur go's to the hammerfall sgt. and one to your caster. Blasters are the best thing you can get to clear away horde lists and gunners take care of heavy armor and pesky solos. One caster that will give Rulic caster fits IMO tends to be Irusk with inhospitable ground. Don't ever plan on getting off a charge and he completly nullify's heavy Rulic jacks, moving 2 inches a turn or running 4 doesn't get the job done.