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So this is a little different than my normal BT concept list, but if you really want to be a PITA this list will give your opponent a hard time.

You essentially start 'buttoned up' in the land raider crusaders. You use the normal land raiders to pop tanks. If they can't kill them and the 30 odd BT coming, you'll usually win.

It's all about surviving long enough to deliver the hits. You can swap the two LR for 2 preds and 2 land speeders, but the LR are more intimidating and in 5th edition will be more viable.

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster - BT Raiders

1 Emperor's Champion @ 110 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts

7 Crusader Squad @ 514 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x6); Close Combat Weapon (x5); Meltagun; Power Fist; Neophytes; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [293] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch; Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit; Smoke Launchers
1 Blessed Hull @ [25] Pts
7 Neophytes @ [77] Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol & CCW (x7); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch

7 Crusader Squad @ 514 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x6); Close Combat Weapon (x5); Meltagun; Power Fist; Neophytes; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [293] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch; Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit; Smoke Launchers
1 Blessed Hull @ [25] Pts
7 Neophytes @ [77] Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol & CCW (x7); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch

1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts

1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts

1 Land Raider @ 253 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon (x2); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch; Power of the Machine Spirit; Smoke Launchers

1 Land Raider @ 253 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon (x2); Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch; Power of the Machine Spirit; Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost: 1836

Dude. That much AV14 goodness would seriously annoy me.

You know, this might be the one time ever a techpriest could come in handy if one does get immobilised or something.

But yeah, if you get close, things will be nasty. Heck, a Prometheus would be just as nasty, and add a bit more ranged anti hoard/speeder power.

Wait till 5th edition, when BT crusaders become near invulnerable to long range shooting--only Tau have a decent chance of blowing them up.

Or maybe something with tank hunters on it.

Tank hunters has been slowly getting the big nerf/removal bat hitting it in the latest codexes.

I don't expect it to be as serious a threat to tanks as it used to be, especially with the new damage table.

That's a pretty nasty list. I like it, although it requires the player to drop some serious cash on that many Land Raiders.

I think that foot slogging Black Templars will be even more viable in 5th Edition, especially since Run and Zeal can will move each squad 8-18" a turn, with the average being 12. Assuming your opponent doesn't shoot at you is even better, as it just means you'll have more to contact your opponents with.

I play a significantly different style, but that has more to do with my reacting to my opponents' armies and play styles. I regularly fight a Necron player, and go up against Tau almost as much, so I really don't try to compete too much in the Vehicle/Tank department, which leaves me using superior numbers of 3+ saves to my advantage.

It may seem like my top-heavy, Terminator-heavy list wouldn't work too well in some situations, but against my Necron and Tau opponents, they are golden. Same with triple Vindicators with Power of the Machine Spirit.

As you said though, with the new damage table I may very well start fielding a pair of Crusaders packed with Marines.

CK

Well the Crusaders become essentially invulnerable to Eldar (Dark and 'Good').

A friend of mine ran a 5 land raider army in 1500 points at a tournament I ran. He was very well hated. lol then they realized I put the list in his hands when he said 5 LR in 1500 was impossible and I said it wasn't and he said prove it...

Wouldn't be the best in 5th at winning, but it'd still be a serious pain in the ass...

Well, only troops as scoring units in the 5th ed.
This will seriously counteract the 5+ LR armies.

For maximum LandRaider-age, the army is definatly interesting.

...but you only have to worry about two units, two crusaders, big problem that. If those two units dont get to the enemy, you have pretty much ZERO chance of winning. Not just tau, but any lascannon heavy list could handle this.

Like you mentioned in the other thread Stelek, dont try to convince the uninitiated that LR's are back, they arent!

Of course, it would be fun to be GOOD with a list like that, which is possible I suppose....and it isnt easy to pop 4x armour 14, my Dark Angels are running 2x armour 14 and 2x armour 13 and peeps hate THAT. I can see how it would be frustrating.

1 or 2 LR isn't a serious issue for alot of armies.

Alot of AV14 is still trouble for alot of people.

Especially if you don't WANT to get in range to use close up and in your face weapons to knock them out.

While only troops count as scoring might seem like it radically changes the game, you can play around it.

You need only deliver troops to the objective at the end of the game, and if they are inside a LR if there's little you can do about the LR...that itty bitty troop will score.

LR armies are like all terminator armies. Either you win big, or you lose big.

Nothing about that fact is going to change, I'm merely suggesting that BT LRC in particular are going to be alot more difficult to deal with for a major subset of the tournament scene (pointy eared armies). With the changes to rending (making harlequins not so easy to crush BT with) I think BT power level is coming up a bit, and Eldar power level is going down a bit. Even steven? No, but they are alot closer in 5th than they currently are in 4th.

Yup. I concur. Black Templars are going to be really nasty in 5th. Preferred Enemy is going to be huge for Templars.

Capt K

Am I the only person who thinks Storm Shields on BT Assault Marines is probably the best thing you can do for them?

I understand the theme of this army and I'm not saying Assault Marines should be thrown in with it, but in BT armies in general I never see this option given to Assault Marines.

BT assault marines don't get the vow.

Storm Shields are pricey for units getting shot dead from across the board.

This is imo 'bad'. It's akin to running tactical squads in ravenwing/deathwing armies--why bring along what is essentially a crappy unit?

You can at least argue that BT assault marines can do a good job running behind the crusaders and adding extra oomph and mobility where you need it, as compared to DA tact squads which don't really do that for you.

Stelek wrote:
1 Emperor's Champion @ 110 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts

Raon wrote:
The Army Builder is bad for errors. In your Black Templars list, the army's vow must be purchsed at an additional cost when you get your Emperor's Champion.

He's 90 base, add 20 for ATW.

Seems like you need to read that BT codex again, mate.

AB doesn't explicitly put the points for ATW on because it isn't wargear or even a character upgrade, just fyi....but it's still there in the characters total.

I haven't been able to see anything about black templars ( friends don't have the codex, downloads unsuccessful) I was just curious if this was working towards anything special or just using it as a tournament worthy kill anything encoutered army . It sounds awesome. I'm quite the fan of Land Raiders and the crusaders hurricane bolters always sounded amazing.

It's entire point is to bring heavy vehicles and a decent assault force into an enemy army, and see what happens.

If the other guy cannot stop your land raiders, you should win.

That's about all it's designed to do.

Hmm. you have meltas and powerfists... I wonder if there's any way you could cut the support LRs to get another Crusader squad (and LR Crusader), grin and bear the shots on the way in, and just smash vehicles once you get close? Remember, in 5th one is supposed to be able to pop a transport, then assault the squishy goodness that bails out.

As an added advantage, this would cut your KP yield down by two. If KPs make it into 5th, that is...

LR spam is awesome. Even if it's a beeyotch to fight, you gotta respect someone making room for that in their list.

Stelek what does your 5 land raider 1500pt list look like?? I am just curious, I love wacky list like this.

Thanks,
Chappy P!

Savnock, yes I can do that. I'll post that for you.

Chappy P, I'll post that for you as well.

Reducing your attacks on your assault marines is foolish. At that point you might as well just use regular crusaders. It would have been better if they could upgrade to a combat shield instead.

Capt K

Stelek wrote:BT assault marines don't get the vow.

Storm Shields are pricey for units getting shot dead from across the board.

This is imo 'bad'. It's akin to running tactical squads in ravenwing/deathwing armies--why bring along what is essentially a crappy unit?

You can at least argue that BT assault marines can do a good job running behind the crusaders and adding extra oomph and mobility where you need it, as compared to DA tact squads which don't really do that for you.