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Savnock wrote:Just for kicks, care to indulge me and toss out a list based on KPs (with the values in the .pdf) and Troops-only scoring? And let's also say for the sake of argument that simply "kill everything ignore KPs" won't do either, as very hard/evasive KP-denial lists are liekly to be common.

I look forward to seeing what you would design for that situation, Stelek.

Well, this is it. 7 total KP's.

4 scoring units.

The Farseer sits in the 'back' row, in a wraithguard unit behind the leading wraithguard unit and fortunes them.

Everyone else hides behind that unit, when it's been reduced in model count; it falls back and the unit behind it moves up.

The farseer can move around as needed to try and MW out threats like MC, but as most of those are slow you should be able to just zap them with the guns. I figure he's there to take out DP and Flyrants, but since those are only S6...they aren't as bad against you as they could be. If they have re-rolls though, then you want to MW them.

You will probably run alot, but on the plus side only massive heavy weapons are going to bring you down.

Most CC armies just can't bring it to this army.

I'd say hats off to anyone who killed 39 Wraithguard, reducing you to only 1 scoring unit and netting themselves 3 KP.

==============================================================================

1750 Pts - Eldar Roster

1 Farseer @ 153 Pts
Psyker; Fortune ; Mind War ; Fleet; Ghost Helm (GH); Rune Armour (RAmr); Runes of Warding (RofWard); Runes of Witnessing (RofWit); Spirit Stones (P:SpStn); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Singing Spear (SSpr)

10 Wraithguard @ 396 Pts
Fearless; WraithSight; Wraithcannon (WC) (x10)
1 Spiritseer (Warlock) @ [46] Pts
Psyker; Conceal ; Fleet; Spiritseer Upgrade; Rune Armour (RAmr); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB)
1 WP Conceal @ [0] Pts

10 Wraithguard @ 396 Pts
Fearless; WraithSight; Wraithcannon (WC) (x10)
1 Spiritseer (Warlock) @ [46] Pts
Psyker; Conceal ; Fleet; Spiritseer Upgrade; Rune Armour (RAmr); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB)
1 WP Conceal @ [0] Pts

10 Wraithguard @ 396 Pts
Fearless; WraithSight; Wraithcannon (WC) (x10)
1 Spiritseer (Warlock) @ [46] Pts
Psyker; Conceal ; Fleet; Spiritseer Upgrade; Rune Armour (RAmr); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB)
1 WP Conceal @ [0] Pts

10 Wraithguard @ 396 Pts
Fearless; WraithSight; Wraithcannon (WC) (x10)
1 Spiritseer (Warlock) @ [46] Pts
Psyker; Conceal ; Fleet; Spiritseer Upgrade; Rune Armour (RAmr); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB)
1 WP Conceal @ [0] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1737

Are wraithguard troops? I always thought they were elites or something.

When put together as you see them, they can become troops.

How? Did I not read the Eldar Codex correctly?

Apparently, no.

Just read the entry for Wraithguard again.

Buy 10, they become Troops.

With Run, this army could be quite hard. 25+ Wraithcannon shots (the likely surviving number after 2 turns of running) close in would _hurt_.

Although I know you're doing your "hard to chose between similar targets" thing here again plus the KP denial, Eldrad would be much more useful than the Seer you have in there now. 2x Fortune _and_ Mind War would really make this list even harder. Cutting one of the WG units down by 2 models will give you plenty of points to do so, and only raise your KPs and reduce your scoring units by one. Plus the reposition after deployment could really help given their short range weaponry. Eldrad's also much better in CC than the standard Farseer, and CC is quite likely.

This list would be really interesting to see played. Good build.

Savnock wrote:Although I know you're doing your "hard to chose between similar targets" thing here again plus the KP denial, Eldrad would be much more useful than the Seer you have in there now. 2x Fortune _and_ Mind War would really make this list even harder. Cutting one of the WG units down by 2 models will give you plenty of points to do so, and only raise your KPs and reduce your scoring units by one. Plus the reposition after deployment could really help given their short range weaponry. Eldrad's also much better in CC than the standard Farseer, and CC is quite likely.

This list would be really interesting to see played. Good build.

I thought it was a little too obvious to run Eldrad.

With this many wraithguard, I think fortune is moot. Especially only one. Firstly because its more or less imposable to kill 40 wraithguard. Secondly because enemies will just shoot the unfortuned ones. And don't give me any of that crap about fortuning the squad in the best position or whatever because unless you plan on keeping all four squads 6" away from that seer...

He doesn't even have a bike.

Anyway, I think you'd be much better off with Yriel or Eldrad. I was gunna say Avatar, but my mind is still in fourth edition.

Edit: I just remembered the targeting rules. Nevermind. I guess my mind really is stuck in fourth.

-Leo037

Well, you could fit Yriel in to the 4 troop wraithguard.

He can hide in the squads safely.

I do think it's pretty difficult to beat down 40 wraithguard.

WraithGuard as troops, looks interesting.
But they are very slow and may not shoot their short-ranging weapons before they get charged.
How about a counter-strike unit such as Scorpions?
I'd take two footslogging Farseers, each with fortune, to fortune two concealed WG squads.

Stelek, denial armies are all about being obvious... and then being frustrating.

I thought Yriel too, but adding another HQ unit sort of breaks the KP-denial thing. And 2 Farseers would be _way_ worse than Eldrad, both in performance and KP yield.

And glad you realized the 5th targetting rules will change things, Cypher. Fortuning that squad in front (plus whatever flank an enemy may be lapping 'round, as this is a very slow army) will really increase survivability. And let's not underestimate the number that 3 battlecannons could do on an army like this while inbound without plenty of Fortune.

I do agree that while army is tough, it doesn't hit very hard once wrapped up in CC. Yriel or Scorpions would be a pretty good idea to round it out. The build seems more fun to work with without them, though- playing an extreme is really challenging.

That is the idea, being extreme.

Other 'extreme' army types might sock it to you, but since there are so few 'adventurous' types at GTs I doubt you'll get a matchup against say a all-CC army.

Never know though, might happen. lol

3x wraithlord would really turn this list into a solid list though it would break from your core ie your denail.

Things to watch out for, templates, Evasor assissin ( quick movement and a lot of attacks ),

2nd ed return to end the mind war, oh I mean 5th ed. LOS is going to redo the whole mind war trick as it will allow people to set up units so that the main guy in the unit does not get mind wared to death.

Just things to look at.

Waiting to see 5th ed myself,,,,

Now that I look at it again, Mind War _and_ two Fortunes would really, really help this list. I wouldn't field it without Eldrad. And those dual Fortunes will really up the enemy's frustration factor as well.

Tarval, There are no new saves or LOS changes that affect Mind War in 5th. Intervening units are cover saves, but cover doesn't effect Mind War.

Well, run it at 1850 points and it won't be a problem taking Eldrad.