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So, after being asked numerous times how I'd run Necrons I've finally decided how I'd run Necrons.

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

What, a guy can't have any fun?

When GW makes a new Codex for them, I'll run a list. Unless it's as boring as the vanilla codices, then I probably won't ever. Hear me GW?!

Is this an Apoc list?

- G

Hehe no it's the only way I'd run a Necron army. It's a joke, it's illegal...it's just Necrons have been so bad since they were released I'm surprised when I see them at tournaments. I feel bad for the terminator. He needs love.

If it were not for Godzilla Nids Necrons would have no weakness.

- G

Dear Stelek and GBF,

Although nominally 'bad', Necrons won the ARDBOYZ tournament last year, which I think would give them bragging rights to be the toughest, baddest ass army codex in the game.

When I read battle reports on them they usually go like this...... 3 Devastator squads fired at my unit of X, killing all but 1, and I made most/some/all of my 'We'll be Back' rolls. Then, my Monolith arrived via deepstrike, I fired at 15 enemy units at once, klling 40+figures. My opponent then fired his Melta/missile launcher/multimelta's at my Monolith and obtained a glancing hit.... At which point my 'Nightbringer' got into hand to hand combat and 'it was all over'.

I haven't had to play against a Monolith heavy Necron army yet, but the Bat Reps make me very uneasy.

I am playing Smurfs. My son has Nids enough to Godzilla, Guant or Stealer armies.

Might one of you expound on how Nids beat Necrons, and how one counters the dreaded 'we'll be back' rolls-does the Orb of whatever even negate instant death?

A fairly typical smaller level game report is up on the Bat Reps section, DA vs. Necron. Seems to me that the DA player was not able to concentrate fire on Necron units to get phase out, and then got smoked when the Monolith arrived in the middle of his army.....

And, won't the Monolith become a dominant tank in 5th edition due to its high armor value?

Help the newcomers out here....

Mike Guth

mikeguth wrote:Although nominally 'bad', Necrons won the ARDBOYZ tournament last year, which I think would give them bragging rights to be the toughest, baddest ass army codex in the game.

Ain't sayin' much. Wasn't much of a competition. Maybe Necrons winning anything says something about how badly it was done.

mikeguth wrote:Might one of you expound on how Nids beat Necrons, and how one counters the dreaded 'we'll be back' rolls-does the Orb of whatever even negate instant death?

If you just think of the WBB rolls as FNP with serious limits, you'll realize it really isn't all-powerful.

Concentrate your fire on Heavy Destroyers, Destroyers, and Immortals (in that order). Once those are gone, the Necrons are done.

So far it's worked in every game I've ever played against Necrons, since they were released.

When they don't have those units, laugh and go on to crush their pathetic army.

Monoliths are annoying. The more of them there are, the more likely the Necron army is going to be phased out earlier than normal.

I can kill 20 a turn with my guard and my dark eldar. Necrons can't handle either of those armies if they're setup to kill marines.

There are lots of army builds that are very competitive and make Necrons go away.

I think the *longest* game at a GT vs Necrons (out of about 4 or 5 I've played) lasted 4 turns. Shortest lasted 2.

It's a horrible army, lacking so many things and just depending entirely on you failing your save after being shot.

My experiences have been different from Stelek's. I concur with those who believe Necrons do wel.

In particular I'm dubious as to the DE army that outshoots Necrons.

I feel like determining, by mathhammer, the number of dark lance shots necessary to drop 20 t5 Necrons in 5+ cover in one round.

Each Dark Lance shot will hit 2/3 of the time, wound 5/6 of the time, bypass the cover 2/3 of the time and bypass wbb 1/2 of the time. Thus, each dark lance shot kills 20/108 of a Necron, or 5/22. Rounding in Dark Lance's favor the Dark Lance is killing once for every four fired. That leads neatly to the conclusion that you need to fire 80 dark lance shots to drop 20 Necrons in one round.

Now this seems a bit much, so let's examine ways we can get the number lower? First off the target could be Warriors, which means you aren't decreasing the Necrons firepower in any appreciable way, but on the other hand you don't suffer WBB if there isn't an orb nearby. This gives you a 20/54 ratio, or 10/27, roughly 1 in 3 (this time we round in the Necrons favor) So now you are getting by with only 20 dark lance shots.

Still seems rough. Ok, what if they aren't in cover? That brings us back up to 5/9, the classic lascannon vs. grunt ratio, leaving you with 40 dark lance shots to drop 20 Necrons warriors with no res orb nearby who aren't in cover.

That's about as kind as it's possible to be. It can also be much much worse. Making the cover 4+ will hurt. A Monolith behind cover recycling the most damaged unit puts you up to 160 dark lance shots. Failing priority tests splitting up your fire, LOS issues that don't let the entire army fire on these poor Warriors, what have you, it's hard to even drop the 20 warrirors.

By contrast the Necrons shooting will absolutely savage a Dark Eldar army. Virtually nobody in the entire codex takes a save vs. AP 4 gauss rounds, and any unit of Immortals or Destroyers firing on a DE skimmer can expect to put it away in one volley.

If the DE are going to win, they have to do so in assault.

Then again, maybe I'm not vet enough. Stelek, can you post the DE army list that you use to outshoot Necrons, or simply link if it's already on the site.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208468.page

Stelek wrote:If you just think of the WBB rolls as FNP with serious limits, you'll realize it really isn't all-powerful.

Concentrate your fire on Heavy Destroyers, Destroyers, and Immortals (in that order). Once those are gone, the Necrons are done.

So far it's worked in every game I've ever played against Necrons, since they were released.

When they don't have those units, laugh and go on to crush their pathetic army.

Monoliths are annoying. The more of them there are, the more likely the Necron army is going to be phased out earlier than normal.

I can kill 20 a turn with my guard and my dark eldar. Necrons can't handle either of those armies if they're setup to kill marines.

There are lots of army builds that are very competitive and make Necrons go away.

I think the *longest* game at a GT vs Necrons (out of about 4 or 5 I've played) lasted 4 turns. Shortest lasted 2.

It's a horrible army, lacking so many things and just depending entirely on you failing your save after being shot.

I'm always trying to find ways to disagree with you Stelek. It's been frustratingly hard to do that lately...

the last GT I ran with necrons i went 3-1-1. I was 1 of 2 necron players and it appeared as though I had arrived in some vortex of randomness where no one at the event had ever read a necron codex before.

My tame list was totally hated on. And the paint score was trashed too. It is painted well in my estimation. Just doesn't have back banners/loincloths/spiky hair and neon insignias.

I shudder to think what my overall points would have been had I faced more than 1 guy that just followed your simple checklist.

Kill my destroyers, then kill my immortals, then go get a soda. The only strength the necrons have is the shocking amount of people who don't understand how WBB works. Once you face off against a guy that can kill 8-9 T5 3+ save models a turn, and actually shoots at the right ones. you are so done its not even funny.

Needless to say, the necrons are deep, deep, deep in my closet, hermetically sealed for a couple years. Call it 'returning to their stasis tomb' if you want.

I've never really had problems fielding my Necrons, and I don't use Any Destroyers at all, only 8 Immortals. I usually have no real problems with Guard armies, but the one Dark Eldar player we have I hate to fight.

Shep wrote:I shudder to think what my overall points would have been had I faced more than 1 guy that just followed your simple checklist.

Kill my destroyers, then kill my immortals, then go get a soda

Oh man I burst out laughing in a meeting. Damnit. lol

Aduro wrote:I've never really had problems fielding my Necrons, and I don't use Any Destroyers at all, only 8 Immortals. I usually have no real problems with Guard armies, but the one Dark Eldar player we have I hate to fight.

DA can either outshoot you, or outassault you.

They usually can't do both.

They are a glass jaw army, but the WWP was put in to mitigate that.

Now if only the Dark Elves can get a WWP....hmmm.

Oh, just a quick idea of the kind of list I generally field.

Unlimited Pts - Necrons Roster - Unnamed

1 Lord @ 200 Pts
WarScythe; Destroyer Body; Nightmare Shroud; Phase Shifter
1 Destroyer Body @ [30] Pts
1 Nightmare Shroud @ [30] Pts
1 Phase Shifter @ [30] Pts

8 Immortals @ 224 Pts
Gauss Blaster

8 Flayed Ones @ 168 Pts
Claws; Disruption Field

14 Warriors @ 252 Pts
Gauss Flayer

14 Warriors @ 252 Pts
Gauss Flayer

14 Warriors @ 252 Pts
Gauss Flayer

5 Scarab Swarms @ 80 Pts
Disruption Field

5 Scarab Swarms @ 80 Pts
Disruption Field

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1743

Created with Army Builder
Copyright (c) 1997-2006 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. All rights reserved.

Not sure if you wanted a critique or not, aduro.

I guess I should say, I'm not scared of it? Yes, it's different but I'm afraid to say that doesn't mean it's good.

The problem with Necrons is, they're all the same.

Works great in fantasy, where it has a strong theme.

The dead rising again and again, in 40k...land of the instant incineration from a lascannon?

Yeah, not actually fun--and the unit selections are boring.

They aren't 'The Terminator' army either, because phased pulse rifles blow them to bits in the future--and we're in the future. This isn't 1985 where all you've got is automatic rifle fire to take them down, ya know.

Real damn boring.

Easy to fix, but GW can't seem to be bothered.

Still, Necrons can be a harder army than some. Especially if you go against the grain, and take some interesting units. 40+ Warriors, the deciever, 30 scarabs, 2 monoliths, and a lord with a res orb or a portal (depending on who/how you play). Scarabs turbo boost forward, behind cover if at all possible. Second turn, they slam into combat, and they are really, really difficult to kill, apart from with terminators or other S6+ units (not many).

This gives time (and block vital LOS) for the warriors to move on up, allow for the monliths to drop down, and allow for teleporation or walking up and shooting the rest to death.

This list also works well against assaulting armies, as scarabs are great on the counter charge, and necrons are great for holding up combat for a while against most units.

Now you could also put a couple of heavy destroyers in, and use cover to screen most of the target, so they can take out the vehicles. Either that or equip the scarabs so they can glance vehicles.

And as for another option if the enemy is one which comes towards you, a Necron player can take the Deceiver, 4 Pariahs (hiding behind something, maybe a monolith), 2 monoliths, scarabs and warriors in front. Use the monoliths to screen if terrain is bad. Use the deceiver to charge the lead unit or take the charge, then withdraw in the opponents turn, leaving it open to be shot then assaulted, and use the deceivers powers to make units take ld7 tests from the pariahs. Finally, pile into assault with the scarabs, deceiver and pariahs, and whatever else you have, and start running them down if at all possible.

There are just two thoughts. The first I have tried quite a few times and was successful, the second I haven't tried, but have seen many battle reps where it has been used effectively, and it makes sense to me.

Scarabs are a big pain to kill. You do realize cunning players will use your scarab offense to hide from all of your shooting, yes? That's what I do. Throw everything into close combat. Stomp the scarabs, go back to shooting the rest of the necrons.

Most armies should be able to crush the bugs underfoot in a few rounds at best.

mikeguth wrote:Although nominally 'bad', Necrons won the ARDBOYZ tournament last year, which I think would give them bragging rights to be the toughest, baddest ass army codex in the game.

Stelek wrote:Ain't sayin' much. Wasn't much of a competition. Maybe Necrons winning anything says something about how badly it was done.

I dunno Stelek, I thought the Ardboyz was a lot of fun, and run quite well. I enjoyed both qualifiers and the finals. The missions were weird and unbalanced in some cases, but I got into the weirdness. As far as finding the ardest ardboy in 40K, I suppose a it might have been more accurate to run a year long league followed by a 20 game tournament, but not as much fun.

Doesn't take much to run a good tournament but effort.

Gimmicks don't cut it.

It was all gimmicks for me.

I beat my buddies stupid ridiculous 300 man IG army and got the title at my FLGS.

After that, lost most of my interest lol the gimmicks beat the fun factor outta it for me.

Ok, Stelek, give me an example of an enjoyable and well run tournament you've been to. I wanna know where they are so I can go...

Mine. Ohio isn't that far from Utah.

If you come early, I've even got a spare bedroom! Of course, if you aren't aware what regular showers is don't bother my wife has standards.

(She makes me shower regularly. lol)

Necrons are probably the best overall codex in the game at this point. Stelek is on the dope again.

ROFL!

Pass me the crackpipe brother, you've got some real high grade stuff!

Necrons have been junk since release, and with Codex creep and 5th edition around the corner (hey, everyone gets saves from Necrons now, yay we're the uber!) they're only going to get worse.

I think Necrons are pretty strong overall. There are some great, defensive builds with Veil and Monoliths, but don't discount the Wraith storm. 9 Wraiths in a Necron army give it a tactical flexibility most opponents don't expect.

Stelek wrote:So, after being asked numerous times how I'd run Necrons I've finally decided how I'd run Necrons.

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

1 Monolith @ 235 Pts
Gauss Flux Arc; Particle Whip; Power Matrix
1 Power Matrix @ [0] Pts

What, a guy can't have any fun?

When GW makes a new Codex for them, I'll run a list. Unless it's as boring as the vanilla codices, then I probably won't ever. Hear me GW?!

Hey, nice list. This list is immune to Phase-Out!

Longshot wrote:Necrons are probably the best overall codex in the game at this point.

No way.

No way.

Negative.

I can probably count the number of times that I've lost to necrons on one finger.

One finger?

Is that the one you lost to the wood shredder or what?

I don't think it counts as one. :(

Stelek wrote:Not sure if you wanted a critique or not, aduro.

I guess I should say, I'm not scared of it? Yes, it's different but I'm afraid to say that doesn't mean it's good.

The problem with Necrons is, they're all the same.

Works great in fantasy, where it has a strong theme.

The dead rising again and again, in 40k...land of the instant incineration from a lascannon?

Yeah, not actually fun--and the unit selections are boring.

They aren't 'The Terminator' army either, because phased pulse rifles blow them to bits in the future--and we're in the future. This isn't 1985 where all you've got is automatic rifle fire to take them down, ya know.

Real damn boring.

Easy to fix, but GW can't seem to be bothered.

While I was not inherently looking for critique, as for me it's a tried and true list, anyone who posts anything on the internet not expecting someone to critique whatever it was, is stupid. (blue replies only!!!)

I love the whole undeadness of the army. While as you said, We'll Be Back is really just a confusing version of Feel No Pain, I find it to have just about the single most demoralizing effect on my opponents. Stuff they killed, it fell down, just going "tis but a flesh wound!" and standing back up.

On one hand I like the sameness to the look of it, while disliking my lack of available customization on the other.

I dont think I have ever lost to Necrons with my DE. I think I have lost to Necrons maybe twice ever. The army has a built in "I lose" button and regardless of the mission, you can simply go for that button.

Just to play Devil's advocate then, just how did the Necrons win the ARDBOYZ tournament? (Hint, never bring your only lascannons on Razorbacks.......).

I didn't realize that they had 'missions' in ARDBOYZ. I thought it was always play until someone is destroyed. Perhaps that had something to do with it?

But, who did the Necrons beat besides SMURFS on the way to the championship? Surely they faced some TAU and EDLAR and Nids along the way?

Anyone know the guy who won ARDBOYZ? Is he a strong player?

3500 pts has a lot of room to bring cost prohibitive units.

he had 3 monoliths and probably enough warriors to prevent phase-out.

3500 pt games are vastly different from 1500-2000 pt games, just because necrons won the 'Ard Boyz doenst suddenly make them the best army.

It means that necrons won the 'Ard Boyz tourney, thats ALL it means.