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As the topic says, I'm in need of your help. I've recently succumbed to the lure of the Ruinous Powers after devoutly playing Black Templars and Imperial Guard, and am feeling like fielding a polar opposite of my witch-hating BTs. Using a friend's codex and a rough understanding of Chaos list building, I've thrown together a small army list that I can put together in short order to throw down some games.

I haven't bought anything, so this list is far from concrete. Please let me know what you think, and what suggestions you would make.

Thousand Sons - 1000 Points

HEADQUARTERS

Chaos Sorceror w/ Force Weapon, Terminator Armor, TL Bolter, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, Warptime - 195

TROOPS

Thousand Sons (8) w/ Aspiring Sorceror (w/ Bolt of Change) - 292

Thousand Sons (8) w/ Aspiring Sorceror (w/ Bolt of Change) - 292

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possession - 145

Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possession - 145

* * * * *

17 Models, 2 Vehicles, 977 Points.

I'm not sure how to go about filling in the last 23 points. I was thinking about putting Combi-Meltaguns on the Vindicators to serve as a last-ditch antitank weapon, but wanted to see what you all thought.

Below is a scattered list of thoughts I have about how to play this. If any of these preconceived notions is false, please let me know. I wouldn't want to get into a rut of bad thinking before even starting the army.

Let me say now that I have no experience building Thousand Sons lists, let alone playing with them. The high cost of basic models shouldn't scare me as much as it does, seeing as how I field Terminator-heavy armies all the time, but having only 17 models and 2 vehicles on the field (16 very S L O W models at that) at 1000 points is a bit unsettling.

The general plan I had in mind was along the lines of what I do with my Templars, except in slow-motion. In a simple shoot-em-up, I'd move into firing range and let rip with everything. In a game where I had to advance on a position, I'd move forward in a staggered Vindi-1K Sons-Vindi formation until in weapons range, and then shoot until whatever was in my way was dead. Simple, but I think the general idea works.

I'm worried by the idea of an 85 point model being in each of my troops squads, but the 3 Force Weapon attacks in close combat seems to make up for it, as does the Bolt of Change. I'm used to 6pt IG Veteran Sergeants, or just no Sergeants at all in my BT, so maybe that's just me not being used to the playstyle.

The 3 Bolts of Change seem like they'd be of sufficient power to drop most vehicles, with the Vindicators acting as backup against AV14 (those vehicles tend to be pretty large anyway, so scatter won't mess me up too much). Not much needs to be said about the AP3 bolters, and since the Demolisher Cannons are AP2 and the Bolts are AP1, I'm not too terribly worried about 2+ save armies.

Overall, I see this list as being tough (4+ Invul), incredibly slow (Slow and Purposeful), and relatively short-ranged (24" being the range of everything sans the 3 Bolt Pistols). It seems strong against armies with small model-counts and high armor saves (3+ in particular). I worry, however, about long-range armies that fight best when at arm's length, like SAFH Marines, Tau, and Guard. Any kind of horde army would be bad as well, it seems, as I would not have the numbers to stay in a protracted engagement to fight a 50+ model IG army at 1000 points, nor the Assault strength to deal with horde assaulters (I think the Force Weapons only really help deter/kill Monstrous Creatures and Character units, not 30 Gaunts, 20 Berzerkers, or 20 Templars).

Anyway, that's all for now. Let me know what you think of the list, as well as what I should change (in the list and in my general thoughts about Thousand Sons). I plan on ultimately expanding these guys only to about 1500 points in the long run, but that's a ways away.

If you have any suggestions for 500 points and 750 points lists, let me know. They'll be my starting point to get to the list written above.

Thanks again.

CK

Shameless bump.

CK

I'd say drop something to get two rhinos. You don't have to use them as transports, more like mobile cover. They run around and cover a fire lane from some lascannon toting troops, etc. Other than that I think the list is fine. Low model count, but at 1000pts that's not really a problem. Your unit can deal with most anything, and you vindicators will put big holes in massed infantry, marines and/or tanks. Nice list all together.

Those TS squads should only be 269 pts man. 23x8 + 60 +25.

The Sorcerer is just 60 pts not 23+60 pts(No addition symbol.) so thats another 46pts to spend man.

Personally I'd recommend using those extra points for a rhino and dropping the daemonic possession for another rhino. having played against vindicators a lot... those guys are going to die ... and fairly quick. Use the points elsewhere.

I think the Vindies are a bad fit for this list. You lack ranged firepower, especially AT, with them hogging your HS slots. All you have are three slow-moving Bolts of Change. I think you'd be betetr served by Havocs or the ubiquitous Oblits.

@Bastirous
The only reason I'm hesitant to take Rhinos is because of the fact that they are thin-skinned. One explosion could potentially kill much of the squad inside, though I see that with Slow and Purposeful not much ground will be covered.

@Voodoo
Thanks for pointing out my math error. There are 8 models in each squad, 1 of which is the Aspiring Sorcerer, so those squads are a lot cheaper than I thought. That's good.

@paidinfull
You're right about the Vindicators. They are public enemy number one in every game I've fielded them.

@tegeus-Cromis
Agreed about the Vindicators. I'll probably use the 300 HS points and the extra points skimmed off the troops slots to field two squads of two Obliterators. That should work nicely.

* * * * *

Thanks for the suggestions, all. When I get a hold of my friend's Codex, I'll take another look and point out a new list.

CK

Its just my opinion, but the only vehicles worth taking in marine lists are the baal predator, LR/LRC, speeders. The armor values plus movement of all other vehicles to their cost point is kinda meh. It's mostly because I've played Eldar and Tau for so long but the pred chassis is just poop if you ask me. That 11 side is just nonsense, its like the chimera side armor 10. Really weakens the vehicle

If you are going thousand sons pure i would recommend the terminators w/ MoTz they are just nasty stats wise.
A lot of people like oblitz but I personally think they are rubbish now only being T4. I have seen them die to kroot(small arms fire) more than once and I was the Tau player. Were I to take Oblitz I would always DS them to a Personal Icon.

I agree with the idea of taking a bike as well. I'm toying with that idea as well but I like the wings modeling

I just threw something together for you
Sorcer - 215 ( i think)
MoTz, Warp Time, BoC, Bike, PI

9x 1k Sons - 269
A/S + BoC
1x Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

9x 1k Sons - 269
A/S + BoC
1x Rhino - 50
Extra Armor

1x Oblitz -75
1x Oblitz -75

A lot of people like oblitz but I personally think they are rubbish now only being T4. I have seen them die to kroot(small arms fire) more than once and I was the Tau player.

Flukes happen. Sometimes they happen twice. Doesn't change the fact that each kroot rifle shot has a measly 1/24 chance of inflicting a wound. I'd be more worried about instakills myself.

Were I to take Oblitz I would always DS them to a Personal Icon.

Yuck, what an awful idea. I can see doing this when a special situation calls for it, but planning to do so? You might as well take Termies with combi-weapons then.

Actually not much of a fluke if you think about it.

1 round of rapid fire from 10 Kroot

20 shots, 10 hit, 5 wounds. There's a very decent chance of Getting at least 1 wound... its what 83% at this point?
Thats one round of shooting on one oblit. That's not considering good rolling vs bad.

Previously it would have been 3 wounds with very little chance to score a wound and the oblitz had a flamer so there wasn't a second round of shooting. I think they got hit with the nerf stick the hardest.

In regards to DS it's not a terrible idea. B(

You just pointed out why it isn't. A single lascannon shot takes out 1 Oblit. If that lascannon originates from a predator or landraider the chances of you getting to shoot within 12" and before getting shot at is HIGHER if you DS. The guy who won the last baltimore GT played his Oblitz just like this taking out my hammerhead.

Sure it's a play style preference but it's not an awful idea.
In a tournament this weekend I took out 2 oblitz turn 1 from railgun fire if he DS for example he had the chance to hit me before I hit him with less chance of retaliation as it meant my forces were close enough to engage threats to the Oblitz.

What are Kroot doing 12" from an Oblit anyway? I assumed 24", because Kroot in rapidfire range means the Chaos player is dozing or has already gotten spanked.

You know what, you may well be right about DSing. Kneejerk reaction, sorry.

Kroot infiltrate(18") so turn 1 they can move unimpeded through trees (6") and get rapid fire shots off. Thats what I have done. 70pts of kroot killed 150pts of Oblitz. It was LAME!

No worries about the reaction, like I said it's a play style preference, it's not right for every game, but if i'm staring down 4/5 lascannons to my 2 oblitz I will want to keep them off them table until i know they can be effective and not lose them turn one.

Personally I don't like the unit anymore. I used to love killing them with my Tau when Iron Warriors would field 9 of the suckers i just don't feel they are as nasty as they used to be. They're good but those points can go further elsewhere.

Impossible. You need to infiltrate more than 18" away. 6" move + 12" range = 18" = not enough. You could have done it if you managed to infiltrate out of LoS, though--still, I have to wonder what Obltis are doing so far ahead. In fact, why are they even in the open? They can move and fire, after all. All they need is a wood or something to sit 6.5" in.

True. So let's say they infiltrate out of LOS 12" away. I was only trying to make a point that it can be done. In my example I think I started shooting on turn 2 not turn 1 I can't quite remember. The oblitz were in a building then but their 2+ is what failed em.
Kroot rifle is S4 AP6

I'm also a little confused by your comment about the oblitz being so far ahead... what did you mean by this?
For clarity, in my example(game) they(oblitz) were in the top left corner(from my board edge) in a building. The kroot infiltrated in the same quarter in/behind trees near them.

Anyways I don't want to hijack the thread too much.
@OP
The point being, think about what you want the units to accomplish and try and compose the unit around this purpose. Consider what opponents you normally face and what unit can fill what role where. B)