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This guy us to be really fun and I was thinking about trying to bring the fun back for this guy.

Allow him to make a called shot, head, arms, body, legs, Xtra ( items that do not normaly fit in, wings and such ). Each location changes the over all states of the unit.

Head dbl wounds
Body reduce T by X, Minus one to Tough?
Arms reduce WS by X, and or minus an attack Minus one per wound to a min of one attack. Minus one to WS as well.
Legs reduce speed by X, Minus D6" per wound?

Granted a Carni is one bad mobo jombo, nocking out his knee cap is not something you want to happen as it will hinder his over all speed. Granted its a beast and can handle wounds, it still going to hender him in some form.

Next you would need to come up with some type of a chart. That way every person fielding this guy is not doing a head shots all the time. This way it would add more fluff to the assassin like the good old days.

I was thinking along the lines of something like this for the called shot.

X = four on the dice roll so maybe we could change it up a bit. X being the standard roll to wound for a snipper rifle.
Body = four
Arms/Legs = five
Head = six

In 2nd ed this guy was great to play with, enjoyed the hell of ignoring the targeting rules. One time I caped a harlie master in hth with my leader. The guy was so eacked off and would not let me do it saying that he was in hth. I had to show him a few times before he understood that I ignore targeting rules. So I popped his field and then blasted him off the board with turbo shoot.

One time I planked the Eldar walker pilot, number one reason people stoped using war walkers.

It was just a good amount of fun to play around with and now he is just a X amount of point item that really does not do anything.


Tell what you guy think and if you play around with the test rules, let me know how it turned out.

So, do you speak English in Texas?

Tarval,

I gotta agree that the Vindicare Assassin is rather lackluster. I would love to see something done to improve him. I think your rules are a little confusing and more complicated than they need to be. A few simple rules should make him an attractive alternative to the other Assassins.

I'd like to see his Sniper Rifle given AP2, I'd like to see any unit he causes a wound on take a Pinning Test at a penalty (maybe -2 or -3; maybe force them to re-roll if they are successful the first time). Lastly, I'd like to see an 'Instant Death' rule from him, something along the lines of 'a To Wound roll of 6 causes instant death to multi-wound models (they may make Invulnerable Saves as normal)'. Let's face it, he's supposed to be the best sniper in the game. He only gets a total of 6 shots in a game, and that is if he doesn't have to move to aquire targets. I *do* think he should cost more if this is done, but it would make him an alternative to the other assassins, instead of making him the 'red-headed stepshild of the assassins'.

StoneFoxx

Don't forget a Rending Pony to ride in on!

Wow nurglitch. Having a bad day? No need to take it out on me. Tarvel offered his idea. You provided the non-constructive criticism. I offered my opinion.

The way you're bitching, you should head over to the B&C forum. Remember, it's not my fault you got your pony tail caught in the tilt-a-whirl at work today.

StoneFoxx

Take what out on you? I'm simply making the point that loading a model up with special rule after special rule is a classic munchkin thing to do, hence mention of the classic 'Rending Pony' from the days when anything the munchkins considered 'nerfed' needed the Rending rule to make it interesting for them.

As for Tarval, I'd love to give him some constructive feedback, but I'm unilingual and I can only read English.

I thinking Nurglitch never played in 2nd ed when characters had things to offer, instead of just a bolt pistol and master crafted weapons

Well back to the point with the over all idea of giving this assassin something to offer, if he is to be played. Im just saying this assassin should have something fun because after all he is a single character that hardly ever sees the light of day. Its just that these assassins normally just sit on the wall, unlike the old days of 2nd ed, and 3rd ed. After looking at the assassin a few ideas came to mind for this guy. Hell 2nd ed Evasor if he wounded, half your stats and caused you to strike at int 1. The great thing about the vindicator was what he did in 2nd ed and half of that carried over into 3rd ed. It just seems that he needs an update so that he can carry on into 4th or should I say 5th ed.

Yeah, I played two games of 2nd edition and went back to playing Epic: Space Marine (2nd edition) and Warhammer Fantasy (4th). That version of the game was an amazing triumph of style over substance. Nice books though - my brothers and I had the Chaos Space Marine Codex (and it's good to see some of the material in there reiterated in the latest version) and the Tyranid Codex, and of course all the White Dwarfs. They made great reading, but we found other games much more fun.

Now, you seem to feel that the 4th edition of the game doesn't have enough style, as it relates to the Vindicare Assassin. I'd suggest that instead of loading on rule after rule, identifying something that would make the Vindicare interesting and special (beyond all the rules he already has) and finding a way to apply it in a simple and straightforward fashion. If you look in the Universal Special Rules section of the rulebook you'll notice that most special rules either require a roll, affect an existing role, or exempt a unit from another rule. Some other special rules, like Terminator Armour and the Harlequin Dance of Death, simply collect existing special rules under a single heading.

If you want to use a chart, I'd suggest something like single-shots by the Vindicare forcing the affected model to roll on the Glancing Hits chart even if it is not a vehicle.

This will allow you to do dirty tricks like immobilizing a unit with pinning it (can't move out of unit coherency, after all, and play out your own Saving Private Ryan moment), destroying important weapons, and so on.

Many of days that me and my fellow games would sit around and talk about some of the issues that 40k deals with. One of them in 3rd ed was termies and the fact that they did not have an inv save, of which they do now. So the Topic Forum says proposed rules of which we are all sitting around talking about ideas. The one thing my group did not have was the be all be behind the keyboard slammer. Now if you wish to add to the topic at hand, then simply keep adding ideas. Slamming and or informing me on how I should go about a full write up is not something people do while they brain storm.

We are simply saying that maybe a little fluff for characters would add a bit of fun to the game again for this unit. How many times do you get to snip the troupe master in hth? How many times do you get to nock out the pilot for the war walker? So now that we are clear on that fact that we are more less proposing rules for a character in 40k, shall we get back on topic?

1. The sniper rifle hits on a two and wounds on a four. While this is great and all, dont all snipers get this effect.

2. This character can target anything that he has los to, so lets build on this effect.

What could we add to this to increase his over all worth to equal some of the other assassins in the game.

1. Open topped vehicles: Allow the assassin to pick out a target in the vehicle?
a. The driver-immoblized vehicle
b. Gunner on a DE skimmer-weapon destroyed
c. Squad that is being trasnported in the vehicle, then he would be able to pick something out of the unit

2. Closed vehicles
a. The driver-immoblized vehicle
b. Gunner-weapon destroyed
1. Draw back to closed vehicles which give the driver or gunner a five or four plus save.

Lets build on these ideas and maybe will see a change like we did with termies.

On the contrary, offering constructive criticism (I'll admit the first two weren't terribly constructive, but the third is) is what people do when they are brainstorming so that they don't get carried away and forget the project brief.

The addition of a 5+ Invulnerable save for Terminators was adopted by GW because it applied a simple and straight forward existing rule to Terminators that made them sell. The Crux Terminatus rule is a prime example of my advice in action - subtle, simple, and effective.

I've offered my suggestion for making your brainstorming productive and legible. Whether you choose to apply them is your own business. Enjoy your "brain storm".

Yes, you did in your 3rd post but for the first two you should of just added some input with out the xtra.