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OK all, Im here hoping that you all will be more helpful than the majority of the people that go to the "army list" section.

The main aim of this army is fun. You say "well that goes without saying" and I say, well in this case it needs to be said because the army is older, and may not be as competitive anymore against all these fancy new codecies. Though the Orks have proven that an old book can still beat you down for many many years....

Im looking for any advice, army builds, or any other HELPFUL comments (other than hey here's an idea, play something else!).

Current models include a rune priest, wolf priest, termie. wolf lord w/ twin lightning claws, 5x wulfen, 2 packs of grey slayers, 2 packs of long fangs (las/ML) and (ML/HB)
I can make up to 8 storm claw bikers and am pretty sure I can rig up some storm claws on foot, how many squads, I dont really know yet.....I have a lot of bits to dig through yet.

any help would be appreciated....
thanks!

Well, first of all you should download their free 'dex from the GW website. I don't own the old EOT 'dex, so I couldn't say if it's the same or not.

The army itself is lots of fun to play, for me at least. It's one of my all-time favorites. I tend to enjoy CC-slanted lists most.

Just realize that against some opponents games will be almost certain to be won or lost depending on the opposing race/build. Eldar airforce, for instance, is darn near invincible to 13th. IG, on the other hand, are doomed if you can get to CC. They also do very well vs. the new Orks, which surprises a lot of people. In any case, if you can't enjoy a game that's almost a forgone conclusion before setup this may not be the right list for you.

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for when you say army builds. Are you asking for other people's lists, or just general advice on building a 13th army? I'll assume the latter here.

Since Wolf Lords are required in every list, I'll start there. I personally prefer my WL on a bike, with a frostblade. This allows him to get into CC quickly. Runic charms are pretty much a requirement for every HQ. He always gets Mark of the Wolfen, for the extra d3 attack. Depending on availaible points, he'll either get a bolt pistol and the Belt of Russ, or a Storm Shield. The other nice thing aobut putting him on a bike is that you can take a retinue of bikers and still keep your FA slots open for Fenrisian Wolves. One of my favorite (but expensive) WL builds is:

418 Wolf Lord (MotW, bike, Belt of Russ, runic charms, frostblade, bolt pistol, frags, Wolves x4)
Storm Claw bikers x3 (power fist x2, WG w/power weapon, runic charms, and MotW)

He can of course be targeted when he has a retinue, but this way his wolves can cheaply soak up the first wound(s) he takes.


The Rune Priest's teleport ability is very important to the 13th, since they have no real efficient way to deal with tanks. I almost always take a squad of Grey Slayers with meltaguns and a powerfist, and use the Rune Priest to 'port them to shoot up a tank. I always give the Rune Priest terminator armor, runic charms, combi-melta, chooser of the slain, and frostblade. This guy has to be survivable, since he's going to be 'porting close to the enemy. Never attach him to the 'porting unit, and always surround him with the Slayers so he can't be charged. The combi-melta also allows him to melt his own tank independantly, which he couldn't do if joined to the Slayers. Some people like to use a Long Fang squad with 4 meltas, in order to target 3 seperate tanks, but I find that it's rare to have 3 tanks that close to each other, and the Slayers are more likely to survive the inevitable charge.

The Wolf Priest is nice, but probably less useful that the Rune Priest for the 13th. Always give him Balms, if he saves even one Slayer you've almost made your points back. I usually put him either with a Wulfen squad to control them, or on a bike and run with a biker squad (to make more efficient use of Balms).


I'm almost late for work, I'll try to remember to write up some more tomorrow.

Wulfen are great vs. some things (low saves, essentially), and decent vs. everything else. However, they're expensive. I would only take one large pack, and only when I have a Wolf Priest in the list. Although you can take them as troops if you have a Lord with MotW, I don't recommend it in a serious list. It means that you'll have at least one uncontrolled, which severly limits their usefulness.

Storm Claws are you hard hitters vs. MEQs. However, they're not quite as fast as Wulfen. You run into the same problem as usual with slogging assualters, although Move thru Cover and Scout helps here.

Grey Slayers should be your troops. Aside from Long Fangs, they're the only things in a 13th list that are even remotely shooty, so you should always give them special weapons over assualt weapons. And given that every unit in the 13th does well in assualt, you should probably get a pack leader with a powerfist as well. I prefer at least one melta squad for teleporting anti-tank.

Storm Claw bikers are expensive, but with 3 power weapons/fists available to them, they're very hard hitting. I tend to use them in retinues for the lord more often than on their own, it saves my FA slots for...

Fenrisian Wolves!!! These guys are a bargian. I try to fit in as many as I can. In larger lists, I usually have 3 squads of 12 or 14. They've got 3 attacks on the charge, move as beasts, and have MEQ stats (except for armor), all for only 10 points. There's not much better out there for tying things up till your Grey Slayers and Storm Claws can get there. They are simply amazing performers.

Long Fangs. I don't like them. They're too fragile, and too expensive in an already expensive list. I prefer to put all my points into assualt, because that's where the 13th is really going to win. Most tanks are useless once you get your guys into CC anyways, so I usually ignore them for the most part. Lots of 13th players disagree with me, though, so you should probably try both ways and see what works for you.



General tips: Always take Mark of the Wulfen on everyone you can. It makes you hit harder, and more. Max out your power weapons/fists, and fists are amost always better than weapons! Try to take Wolf Pelts on your slogging Storm Claw leaders, it gives then an extra attack if they get charged for only 3 points.

Your scout move should almost always be forward. Forget the fancy dancing around behind cover. You're always going to be outnumbered and outgunned, your only hope is to get into CC faster. Use fast units to pin units for the slower ones, and block LOS for the guys comming up behind them.

Mnemoch -
First, thanks for your feedback. This is a project that I wasnt really sure I wanted to embark on, but you've got me more interested to be sure.
The figures I have to use are listed in the post above, but I dont have any of the fenrisian wolves.

Im also just absolutely stumped about the whole 1 HQ for every 750pts rule. Everytime I see this put to page, it always shows 3 HQs for 2000pt lists. Well...thats not 1 per 750pts then!
thats about 2250 pts. Am I totally missing a rule somewhere? Id love to run all 3 of my HQs in this army. I know the Bike mounted Wolf Lord might be the better, but what would you say about a Terminator Wolf Lord with the mark of the wulfen and twin lightning claws? I also have the rune priest, wolf priest and all the other figures listed above. Any other I can more than likely make pretty easily.
Ive always, always had a hard time settling on a space marine chapter, and this might be something I can do to pick one finally.
I mean, Ive played ultramarines, blood angels, dark angels, regular space wolves, black templar, so on and so on. I even came up with my own color scheme for a home made chapter called the Serpent Lords, but I sorta wandered away from them too.

So again, thanks for your feedback.
Is there any lists you might recommend for the 750pt/1000pt range? that'd be what Id start with. (to accomplish modeling/painting in a decent, timely manner before moving on.)

Thanks!

Im also just absolutely stumped about the whole 1 HQ for every 750pts rule. Everytime I see this put to page, it always shows 3 HQs for 2000pt lists. Well...thats not 1 per 750pts then!
thats about 2250 pts. Am I totally missing a rule somewhere?

I don't see any such rule anywhere in the 13th Co army list/mini-dex. Where are you getting this from?

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:OK all, Im here hoping that you all will be more helpful than the majority of the people that go to the "army list" section.

Haha

As I was the only one to reply to your thread about 13th co. in the army list thread I suppose I'm one of those "army list thread bullies"

Please re-read my reply, I had asked you to give me a little bit more info on your collection/project, and I was looking forward to helping you straighten it out.

pretty hard to tell exactly what you want to hear... so, just get out there and have uhh.. fun!

Ok, so, apologies for not being very clear on a few things.

First- as far as locating the 1 HQ per 750pts rule, it's in the Space Wolf codex/Eye of Terror codex under the "retinues" rule.

Second- Mostly Im looking for the best way to make use of this list before I go back to my Ork army(which Im pretty sure could outshoot a Tau army hah).
I see a lot of good converting/painting oppurtunities with the 13th Co. Plus, space wolves are awesome anyways.
So what Im really looking for is anyone who's played this armys input, or even any sample lists of your own forces.
with the collection of figures Ive listed, if anyone wants to toss up a few ideas of what could be done, that'd be awesome.
Id be looking to start at 750pts. Its a tough total to do with this force, but that's probably what Ill be playing at for a few games to get the swing of the army and it's page and a half of special
rules, heh.

I listed a 750pt army list on the other thread but will put it here as well.
Wolf Priest
Wulfen x5
Grey Slayers x10 w/powerfist, meltagun
Grey Slayers x8 w/ powerfist, flamer
Long Fangs x3 w/ 2x missle launchers

I dont have the list right in front of me, but I believe that was the gist of it. Im really not so sure about the Long Fangs, but Im not sure what else to roll with for about 90 odd points.
I could easily skip the 750pt mark and jump to 1000pt being that it's a pretty low model count list.
For some reason, Ive also got it in my head to use a Terminator Wolf Lord with twin lightning claws....should be a decent selection, right? heh.

thanks all!

With regards to the 1 HQ per 750 question, any fraction of 750 requires a HQ. That means if you're playing an 800 point game, you have to have 2 HQs.

With the Termie Wolf Lord: I have never tried one, so I can't offer any advise from personal experiance. I personally like to have a lot of mobility in my Wolf Lord, because with 7-9 S5 power weapon attacks that always hit on a 3+, he's perfect for charging in and shoring up a section of my line.. He can't do that as well if he's only got a basic 6" movement. But that's me.

Remember that a Wolf Lord isn't "0-1", it's "1". That means you MUST have one (and only one) in each FOC. You don't have the option of having a Wolf Priest in a 1750 list.

For your Grey Slayers, I highly recommend upgrading one to a Pack Leader, and giving him a powerfist and Mark of the Wulfen. That allows you to have two special weapons, and gives you more powerfist attacks and more hits in general vs. WS4+. A Wolf Pelt on the leader is also only 3 points for an extra powerfist attack when you get charge. Totally worth it, in my opinion. With meltas/plasmas, that squad comes to 236 (228 for flamers).

for 128 points you get three bikes and two meltaguns. A great anti-tank option, although I like the Long Fang ML squad too. If they shoot your Long Fangs it's just more high priced infantry they have to deal with in close combat.

Ok, so by that reasoning you get:
1 HQ from 1-750pts
2 HQ from 751-1500pts
3 HQ from 1501-2250pts
4 HQ from 2251-3000pts
and so on, is this correct?
With this in mind, and because the model count is still going to be pretty low, I think Ill up my starting pts to 1000pts.

Also, would it be better to run the bike squad with 2 meltas or 3 power fists? (w/wolf pack leader w/ powerfist, mark of wulfen) which ups the points of course, but might have more uses other than anti-tank..

Ok, so, wolf lord(by necessity) and a rune priest are probably the best starter HQs, and then add a wolf priest later on?
So, the biker lord seems to be one of the best ways to go. Is there a recommended build for him by any of you who've used him?
Something like: Wolf Lord, Bike, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Pelt. Anything else? Just a FrostBlade? I figured he could indeed roll with some Storm Claw bikers and always break off from the squad to go drop the hammer on an enemy vehicle or somethin.

I think Ive got a decent handle on the building of the army, but if anyone would like to contribute more, that would always be welcome!!!!!!!!!

Thanks all!

You can't do higher that 2250 with 13th, because you are allowed a maximum of 3 HQs.

1000 and 1750 are harsh point limits for 13th (and SW in general), becuase our HQs cost so much that you're getting relatively little extra oomph for the increase in points. I recommend 750, or 1500.

Depends on what you want the bike squad for. A 3man bike squad with 3 fists and MotW is very mean in combat, but also very vulnerable.

Don't use Thunderhammers or powerfists on HQs, or they'll die. You need to use thier high number of attacks combined with their high I to clear killzones so that they don't get a powerfist in the face at I1. I recommend Frostblade, it's a bit cheaper than twin lighning claws. It also helps with high T opponents. I also like an invulnerable save on my HQs, either a Storm Shield (though that costs an attack), or a Belt of Russ. Frags for when you have to charge into cover. Runic Charms, to allow a armor save reroll. Rolling with Storm Claws is nice, if they're geared for CC. Otherwise they're not much help.

I wrote up a pretty nice little bit on your army list thread. Don't think I was a bully but maybe I am.

Ok, so, here's a list I put together for the 1000pt. mark, but I think I overshot a bit.

Wolf Lord:Frost Blade, Bolt Pistol, Belt of Russ, Mark of the Wulfen, Rune Charm, Wolf Pelt, Frags, Bike. = 200pts. (yikes!)
Rune Priest: Rune Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Rune Armor, Wolf Pelt. = 145pts.

Wulfen: 120pts. x5

Grey Slayers: x10 w/Wolf Guard, x2 Meltas, Power Fist, Wolf Pelt. =255pts.
Grey Slayers: x10 w/Wolf Guard, x2 Flamers, Power Fist, Wolf Pelt. = 250pts.

Storm Claw Bikers: x3 w/Pack Leader, x2 Power Fist, Power Fist, Wolf Pelt. = 166pts.

at this point I believe Im about 123 points over the total 1000pt mark, and didnt even make it to the Heavy Support slots (as far as it goes for this list anyways!)

I realize the Wolf Lord is probably ridiculously overpriced and overtooled up, but I guess it just sounds awesome! I can see this guy taking on a unit of almost anything.....'cept the odd seer council I suppose. Damn this army is expensive, Im thinking this is why no one plays them haha.

Anyways, am I on the right track? Did I miss the bus?? Should I just go play Ultramarines?!?!?

Thanks all!

Your Wolf Lord is exactly like mine. He's very expensive but also very good, able to take on entire squads and win. There are cheaper ways to kit him out, but this is exactly how I do it. He's best vs. MEQs, of course.

The Rune Priest I would put in terminator armor. It's a cheap invulnerable save and a better armor save, which he really needs as he's usually going to teleport very close to the enemy. I prefer to give him a combimelta, termie armor, chooser of the slain, and frost blade. That way he can target a seperate vehicle as the squad he teleports with, giving a decent chance to kill two vehicles at once. CotS also gives him his +1 attack, in addition to it's abilities vs. infiltrators.

I'm not totally sure about such a small Wulfen squad, especially with no Wolf Priest to control them. However, they are fun to play with.

Your melta GS squad is underpriced by 3 points. If you need to lose points somewhere, you can ditch two members of each squad. That gives you 8 men, which is what I run mine at.

The bikers might work well with a runic charm on the pack leader, it's a cheap way to save a guy who otherwise wouldn't be able to swing his fist if you take a wound at anything above I1.

Personally, I put Mark of the Wulfen on every squad leader. The auto 3+ to hit, combined with the extra attacks for the powerfist, makes them so much more deadly in CC.


They are very expensive, but that's good in a way. It makes them a very cheap (in $$) army to build, so long as you aren't maxing out your Fenrisian Wolves.