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Hi there all... Stumbled across these forums and they look good.

I have been painting and gaming WH & 40k for 5 years but on a very on and off basis. I consider myself an above average painter and people say my models look good. I feel I am on the plateau of going to the next level though and I am getting frustrated and I'm starting to get annoyed!!

I have a few random questions for anyone kind enough to help:

1) I hear people always ay thin paints. What is the reason for this? I have seen this mentioned many times but with very little reasoning... Does it mean you get a better blend? Overall Brightness or what? I find paint sometimes needs 2-3 coats without water added so surely this means it would take even more?

Every time I have tried to thin the paints it just gets too thin to paint well with and doesn't cover the basecoat or undercoat properly. I have it at the consistency of thick milk and still no joy... Any suggestions?

2) My models generally have a slightly 'dirty' look. I know I am using a black undercoat and this contributes to this but I have seen many people use black and not get this look... Do I need to be using more layers? Anything else? There is just no brightness

3) What is a wash and a glaze? Again, i have read all tghe books/forums etc but there is little definitive answer... are they 50/50 water/paint (or ink) or more? how many coats need to be applied? I still Black Line models and apparently this can be made unnecessary with washes. How do I do this?.. Do these go all over the model or just in the deepest bits and resesses?

4) Will thinning my paints make highlighting properly any easier? I seem to get a somehwat streaky/blockl highlight at times.

5) Do foundation/Metallic paints need thinning?

I am sure there are more but any help on these would be greatly appreciated. I am getting quite annoyed with painting as I really want to progress but feel I am stuck until I change something drastic.

HH

Hardcore_Hobo wrote:Hi there all... Stumbled across these forums and they look good.

Welcome to dakka!

1) I hear people always ay thin paints. What is the reason for this? I have seen this mentioned many times but with very little reasoning... Does it mean you get a better blend? Overall Brightness or what? I find paint sometimes needs 2-3 coats without water added so surely this means it would take even more?

Thinning paints serves two main purposes.. firstly it gives an even texture so you dont end up with a bumpy appearance or have any visible brushstrokes, and secondly, it prevents highlights from being overpowering, allowing the base colour to show through a little, giving cleaner blending. Thinning to the consistency of milk is moreorless what you are aiming for, but for basecoats it is safe to go a bit thicker, so long as no brushstrokes show through. Some paints are fairly thin and can work well without thinning, and some paints (vallejo) absolutely require thinning. The effectiveness of thinning is based on how much pigment is present in that particular colour.

2) My models generally have a slightly 'dirty' look. I know I am using a black undercoat and this contributes to this but I have seen many people use black and not get this look... Do I need to be using more layers? Anything else? There is just no brightness

Probably just needs more layers, but it is hard to say without you showing us some pictures.

3) What is a wash and a glaze? Again, i have read all tghe books/forums etc but there is little definitive answer... are they 50/50 water/paint (or ink) or more? how many coats need to be applied? I still Black Line models and apparently this can be made unnecessary with washes. How do I do this?.. Do these go all over the model or just in the deepest bits and resesses?

A wash is generally used to fill in the detail. If you are painting something silver, a black wash will give it a lot more depth and shading. A glaze is used as a way to bring different highlights together. For example, if you highlight something red with increasing levels of white, it can look quite pink and chalky, but if you then do a red glaze on top of that, it will smooth out the highlights and look a lot cleaner. A wash is generally paint+water+thinning agent to push it into the depths of the model. A glaze tends to be paint+water+sticky agent (like pva) to allow it to stick to the higher parts of a model. That is my understanding anyway, I think that the glaze/wash/ink definitions vary based on the background of a painter so anyone else feel free to correct me

4) Will thinning my paints make highlighting properly any easier? I seem to get a somehwat streaky/blockl highlight at times.

Thinning will help this, as will thin glazes of the base colour over the highlighted area.

5) Do foundation/Metallic paints need thinning?

Foundation paints are a bit chunky but do not thin that well with water. Some citadel metallics are also quite thick and benefit from thinning, and water can be ok for this. In both cases, using an acrylic thinning agent (available from art stores) will have a much better effect and will make painting a lot easier.

You

Are

The

Man

Thank you so much - Cleared a lot up!

Lego is pretty much spot on for advice there. But if you're all about getting better, it's going to take photos of your work for folks to help critique your stuff, and give you ideas and advice on what to work on, what techniques you might try, and just generally what looks good and what doesn't!

Welcome to Dakka by the way!

Will get some stuff up asap.

ATM I have turned to simpler painting/dipping everything as I've got so frustrated with painting but I'll try and find some of my old stuff I've sold on ebay or whatever.

Thanks again for the help

Hi there I think the above advice is pretty much spot on, but I've never heard of PVA in a glaze?! I am one of the greatest exponents of glazes, I love them and will fight any man, woman or child who thinks differently, but to me a glaze is one part ink and ten parts water to create a really thin ink, no PVA, this way works great. Also, on the thinning question thin everything you can, especially basecoats, because they will be covered up on the raised areas where they may look a little thin. Also, if you're using citadel colours, certain paints are very weak, scab red and the old bad moon yellow being particularly weak, these need a strong base colour underneath over the black basecoat, I se scorched brown for reds and vomit brown or a blood red/sunburst yellow mix for yellows, these really help boost the final colour. Overall, read what's already been put!

PVA does make quite a difference in the manageability of a glaze in my opinion. Give it a try with about 1 part PVA, 3 parts paint and 30 parts water and you'll see a very different flow that doesnt mess up the shading as much, and still masks the highlighting nicely. Likewise, dish soap is the magic equivalent in washes for me to encourage it to get into the recesses without pooling up in specific areas (breaks the surface tension as opposed to PVA which encourages surface tension).

EDIT FOR USA READERS: PVA = White Glue

Nice, I'll give that a bash, cheers for the tip. I always use fairy liquid in my inks, but I've never used the PVA thing, thanks.

One way to get brighter colors is to do sort of a super highlight over the black primer before your base. Before I started using the Foundation red on my girl's red cloaks, I would make a pink color by mixing the red and the white, put that on the cloak, then put the base coat on. This really brightened it up nicely.

Cool... Some really good tips guys... Thanks

Anyone have any suggestions for cheap/relatively easy models to practice this on... Have most stuff?

Thanks

My personal favourite is the dark grey undercoat. It has all the goodness of black but none of the bad stuff.

another tip, if you intend for a dirty/more realistic look lighten colours with something other than whitte, e.g. bleached bone, or dwarf flesh for dark reds. This will lighten the colour whereas white will brighten a colour. Also the advice about basecoating yellows/reds with brown is spot on! Once i heard this years ago i gave it a go and now always use this!