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So after playing two games last night I'm thinking I may want to switch from using Sorscha. Granted in the first game he just made a very big mistake and would have lost without her using her feat, but vs. my second opponent using Circle I made mistakes and had dice go completely tits up and yet I was able to use her feat combo and win by just debilitating him and killing his caster.

It's one of those things where the combo is so amazingly good:

#1) Wind Rush = Move up to SPD in any direction but doesn't count as my movement.
#2) Feat = Freeze models in LOS and Control Area to make stationary (stationary models can basically do NOTHING their next turn and become Defense 5, are auto hit in CC, etc).
#3) Cast Tempest at Warcaster = AoE 4" and Dmg 12, but ANYTHING in the AoE is then knocked down, regardless if they take damage or not. Given that AoE's can only scatter a limited amount, you're almost gauranteed to hit as long as you don't roll double 1's since a Stationary model is Def 5 and your Focus is 6.
#4) Charge to start doing damage with Sorscha. You auto hit in combat because they're stationary and you do your first whack of damage.

Now if you can set it up so that you get one of your jacks to charge that turn, great you just won, but even if you just move the jack's up to charge the NEXT turn, you're still good because:

The target (likely their caster) is Stationary AND Knocked Down. Because they're stationary on their next turn they have no action and thus can't stand up, so in my following turn, their caster is still Knocked Down and thus are still Def 5 for shooting and auto-hit in combat.

So in my turn Sorscha has all her Focus (6), makes her one attack, auto hits, boosts to damage.

So now with 5 Focus I spend two to buy Two More Attacks, which auto-hit and boost to damage, and then spend the last focus to buy one last attack that auto hits but isn't boosted to damage. This is all with her P+S 13 attack, which generally will kill most things, especially if they're a Hordes Warlock and can't camp on Focus to increase their ARM value.

This setup is what won me a game I should have lost and it's a cheap win, which is why I'm thinking about switching to Vlad and running maybe 3 Jacks and some Man-o-War.

I switched to The Butcher in my constantly-fluctuating-with-model-purchases list for pretty much this reason. Now I lose a lot at 500. I miss Sorscha's mobility more than her feat.

Avoud running more than 1 jack with vlad. S&P and BoK are each cast almost every turn. And since they each cost 3 that only leaves him with 1 spare focus. If you want to run 3 jacks run Irusk, he has 7 focus and only needs to use 3-4 of it every turn.

Meh I could see using the standard Jugg & Destroyer with Vlad. The extra Focus goes to running the Jugg and I could cast wind wall to help me run things up. S&P helps the Destroyer move up and drop the bombard on stuff without having to boost and I figure I can save BoK from having to be cast if I screen Vlad with MoW and or the Jugg under the effects of Wind Wall.

Admittedly I wanted to buy a Spriggan and run that with Vlad because Double Speed + Reach = A Happy Motherland.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:
So after playing two games last night I'm thinking I may want to switch from using Sorscha. Granted in the first game he just made a very big mistake and would have lost without her using her feat, but vs. my second opponent using Circle I made mistakes and had dice go completely tits up and yet I was able to use her feat combo and win by just debilitating him and killing his caster.

It's one of those things where the combo is so amazingly good:

#1) Wind Rush = Move up to SPD in any direction but doesn't count as my movement.
#2) Feat = Freeze models in LOS and Control Area to make stationary (stationary models can basically do NOTHING their next turn and become Defense 5, are auto hit in CC, etc).
#3) Cast Tempest at Warcaster = AoE 4" and Dmg 12, but ANYTHING in the AoE is then knocked down, regardless if they take damage or not. Given that AoE's can only scatter a limited amount, you're almost gauranteed to hit as long as you don't roll double 1's since a Stationary model is Def 5 and your Focus is 6.
#4) Charge to start doing damage with Sorscha. You auto hit in combat because they're stationary and you do your first whack of damage.

Now if you can set it up so that you get one of your jacks to charge that turn, great you just won, but even if you just move the jack's up to charge the NEXT turn, you're still good because:

The target (likely their caster) is Stationary AND Knocked Down. Because they're stationary on their next turn they have no action and thus can't stand up, so in my following turn, their caster is still Knocked Down and thus are still Def 5 for shooting and auto-hit in combat.

So in my turn Sorscha has all her Focus (6), makes her one attack, auto hits, boosts to damage.

So now with 5 Focus I spend two to buy Two More Attacks, which auto-hit and boost to damage, and then spend the last focus to buy one last attack that auto hits but isn't boosted to damage. This is all with her P+S 13 attack, which generally will kill most things, especially if they're a Hordes Warlock and can't camp on Focus to increase their ARM value.

This setup is what won me a game I should have lost and it's a cheap win, which is why I'm thinking about switching to Vlad and running maybe 3 Jacks and some Man-o-War.

Yep. That's how Sorscha wins most of her games. The other variant on that is called the 3-D. Feat, and have your 3 Destroyers arc shots on the warcaster. This was invented when Prime was the only book out, so Destroyers were the only models with Arcing Fire. Now you can use Mortars and the Behemoth.

There are models out there that shut down spell-casting, can't be knocked down, or flat out prevent feats. Playing against them will force you to play less aggressively, and Sorscha is not a very good support caster. Find and fight one of them if you want a challenge (Goreshade comes to mind).

With Vlad, be prepared to spam Signs and Portents and either Wind Wall or Blood of Kings. Boundless Charge has its moments, and Razor Wind is for isolated or incorporeal models, but you'll rarely use Brittle Frost or Impaler. One has a too short range, and the other is too expensive, respectively.

For his jacks, you can take pretty much any of them, though his feat helps melee jacks more. The Spriggan is definitely a good choice. His infantry needs to be able to keep up with his jacks on the feat turn, so I'd drop the MoWs for IFP. Actually, Doom Reavers would be best because they can shield Vlad from spells while he shields them from shooting.

So Vlad + Doom reavers, hrmmm?

And Fenris?

Hmmmmm....

Red_Lives wrote:Avoud running more than 1 jack with vlad. S&P and BoK are each cast almost every turn. And since they each cost 3 that only leaves him with 1 spare focus. If you want to run 3 jacks run Irusk, he has 7 focus and only needs to use 3-4 of it every turn.

Just because Irusk has extra focus, it doesn't make him a good choice for running jacks. He has one thing for one jack, and that's Superiority. Everything else he does is pro-infantry. Vlad's favorite spell, Signs and Portents, buffs everything, including his jacks. His feat buffs only his jacks. Wind Wall protects his jacks if they need it. Vlad is definitely a better choice for running multiple jacks than Irusk.

oomiestompa wrote:There are models out there that shut down spell-casting, can't be knocked down, or flat out prevent feats. Playing against them will force you to play less aggressively, and Sorscha is not a very good support caster. Find and fight one of them if you want a challenge (Goreshade comes to mind).

Absolutely. If you still want to play Sorscha, but want to remove the temptation of the Feat and learn how to use here differently, ask your opponent to use an army that shuts the Feat assassination down.

Goreshade's Mage Blight completely shuts down Sorscha's ability to use the Feat to assassinate.
Anti-magic things like Druids and Woldwyrds will prevent you from casting Tempest, and Warlocks in general can survive it more easily because of transfers.
The Harbinger can pretty much stay far enough away for it to be a non-issue, and she can't be KD to boot.
A swarm of Pirates with their 4+ tough and a wide array of no-KD models can also survive it better than many.

oomiestompa wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:Avoud running more than 1 jack with vlad. S&P and BoK are each cast almost every turn. And since they each cost 3 that only leaves him with 1 spare focus. If you want to run 3 jacks run Irusk, he has 7 focus and only needs to use 3-4 of it every turn.

Just because Irusk has extra focus, it doesn't make him a good choice for running jacks. He has one thing for one jack, and that's Superiority. Everything else he does is pro-infantry. Vlad's favorite spell, Signs and Portents, buffs everything, including his jacks. His feat buffs only his jacks. Wind Wall protects his jacks if they need it. Vlad is definitely a better choice for running multiple jacks than Irusk.

I disagree, vlad only has 1 spare focus, and thats nowhere near enough to run 3 jacks as the OP mentioned. And as far as the only 1 spell irusk has that buffs jacks... Its a really REALLY good spell.

Red_Lives wrote:
I disagree, vlad only has 1 spare focus, and thats nowhere near enough to run 3 jacks as the OP mentioned. And as far as the only 1 spell irusk has that buffs jacks... Its a really REALLY good spell.

You don't have to cast S&P and BoK every turn. In fact, casting BoK early on is a waste as you'll have infantry and 3 jacks blocking LOS to Vlad. So you'll have 4 focus to throw around, which is plenty, especially if you take focus efficient jacks.

Irusk's Superiority is an upkeep spell, which means you can only have one instance of it in play at a time. As soon as you cast it again, the last casting of it expires. At most, you can do what's called hot swapping. Upkeep Superiority from a previous turn. The jack activates and does his thing. Then Irusk activates and casts Superiority on another jack, causing Superiority to expire on the first jack. Then, the second jack gets to do his thing. During you opponents turn, only the second jack benefits from Superiority at all.

So all Irusk really needs is one jack.

Agreed. And Irusk is a fantastic caster if you want to play a VERY different style from Sorscha. Though Legion/Orboros/any army with a lot of pathfinder makes Irusk cry.

oomiestompa wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:
I disagree, vlad only has 1 spare focus, and thats nowhere near enough to run 3 jacks as the OP mentioned. And as far as the only 1 spell irusk has that buffs jacks... Its a really REALLY good spell.

You don't have to cast S&P and BoK every turn. In fact, casting BoK early on is a waste as you'll have infantry and 3 jacks blocking LOS to Vlad. So you'll have 4 focus to throw around, which is plenty, especially if you take focus efficient jacks.

Irusk's Superiority is an upkeep spell, which means you can only have one instance of it in play at a time. As soon as you cast it again, the last casting of it expires. At most, you can do what's called hot swapping. Upkeep Superiority from a previous turn. The jack activates and does his thing. Then Irusk activates and casts Superiority on another jack, causing Superiority to expire on the first jack. Then, the second jack gets to do his thing. During you opponents turn, only the second jack benefits from Superiority at all.

So all Irusk really needs is one jack.

Man, I never thought of doing that with upkeep spells. Now I have to try and come up with a way to try it sometime .

It's focus expensive to do it, so you have to make sure it's
worth the expense.

I am thinking something like two Draconic blessing units charging, with Thaggy hanging back. So 10 Swordsmen, Carniveans, uh ... maybe Nephilim x2 should you happen to have them in your list. So 9" charges, or more I believe with the Neph. Especially if you trying to put the hurt on something high ARM.

I don't even remember what my other upkeep spells are. So that turn Thaggy would upkeep 1, cast 2, cast 3 on DS and keep one. This is opposed to normally ... upkeep 1, cast 3 ... probably cast animi. Or he could also use the last one to cast Tenacity or Slipstream.

Not to get off topic. This would be on say Turn 2 right when it is about to be go time.

oic I think I have heard this referred to as, 'cycling' before.