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As the Tag line sais, is their any word when the Skaven Army List book for 7th ed is due?

I know the 6th ed book is passible, but due to Power Creep is starting to get uncompetitive unless you build big units of Elite Core Units and Special units, that are comparatively just that little bit expensive (it's usually just a few points hear & their but it soon stacks up over the numbers Skaven run) for what you get.

Now I love my Rats, and will keep playing them regardless, but I want to be able to build and Mod my Army quickily without having to be like a Greyseer plotting the downfall of Man every time I want to alter my army, last game I played it took me 20apx. hours to build and Play-test my Army for a "Friendly" game to give me a fair chance of winning, where with the Bertonnians or High Elves I can just Build & Run an army with 20-30 minutes notice and have a fair chance of winning. now I know Skeven are meant to be that little bit tougher to run effectively in off the cuff games, but with the extra work Points Balancing to bridge the Edition Gap I find myself playing my Skaven less than I'd like, and I want a Not Good faction to balance my normal "Heroic" armies and I doubt I could take my Witch Elf army in to a In Store Game since it's a Home Brew list built using "Ravining Hordes" and none of the guys have the room for anything over 1K points at the moment.

Wait... Are you trying to say that you feel that Skaven are UNDERPOWERED?

Really?

Well, whenever they are updated, let's hope Alessio either isn't allowed to write it, or at worst someone at the studio actually pays attention to what he's doing!

Not Underpowered, just some options cost a bit more than they feel like they should (Compared to their equivalents in other 7th ed Lists), it means nothing to the individual unit but stacks up over the whole 2K+ Pts Army or if your running low Pts value armies. Hell I'd be for pruning back some of the Border line Munch stuff (Gatling Muskets, Wile Fun are a bit much) Skaven have if we could get some Clanrat Cav. (Clanrats on Mammoth Rats) and perhaps some Skaven Musketeers.

Yeah, Skaven really need an update. Their Army Book is really showing its age.

Off the top of my head, here are the following units that I would rate as uncompetitive in the current Skaven book.

-Master Moulders (really has nothing useful to offer that the other Heroes can't already do)
-Night Runners (their job can be done much better by Gutter Runners)
-Rat Ogres (panic too easily)

To Sir Brad, what other units do you feel could use a boost? When Skaven get re-done, I would like to see the above units get better, while other units get worse (Slaves going down to S2 T2, Ratling Guns not auto-hitting, Jezzails toned down a little...etc)

Man, Skaven overpowered.

Lemme guess, you had ratling guns before they were fixed, and want some of the free OP BS back.

Let's get right on that one...before other armies are updated so they're playable...cough dark elves cough.

Actually it's things like Command Sections where your still paying "Ravining Hordes" Flat Rate for most units where most 7th ed armies have gone back to basing the cost of the command Section off the cost of the Units base member cost.

Rattling Guns are defiantly overpowered, if not out and out broken.

since Rat Ogres can't score the normal Rank Bonuses for Psych how about a Pack size bonous.

Night Runners are just their for if someone wants to run a "Clan Eshin" army and the Master Moulders is just their for if you want to run a "Clan Moulder" army.

Now as to Jezzails they should be left be, their a War Machine, but because Skaven don't have any Ranged Combat units worth a dam everyone (myself included) uses them like Bowmen or Handgunners. Give us back Musketeers (and not just bacause I want to use my 1st-3rd ed Musketeer modles again) and we'll stop using Jezzails like Handgunners and insted like Warmachinies (like their ment to be), then wile where at it we'll start runing more varied Spechial Units (in my 2K pt army I've got 600 pts of Jezzails split betwean three units where I'd like to be spending 200 pts split betwean two).

Like I said it's small things hear and their but across a whole army it dose add up.

Sir Brad wrote:(in my 2K pt army I've got 600 pts of Jezzails split betwean three units where I'd like to be spending 200 pts split betwean two).quote]

That must be a fun army to play against!

The (sorry, don't know the exact name!) Rat Engineers with their nasty little lightning zapper spell might need a little attention too...

As I recall, the Skaven pay pretty much the same for their command sections as everyone else - 25pts for full command. Even their "elite" units like Stormvermin and Plague Monks pay this - it might be 30pts at most. That's pretty standard.

We agree that Rat Ogres could use a buff, I think a slight leadership bonus would be fine.

Jezzails are NOT warmachines. Maybe they used to be, but they aren't anymore. They really play as super handgunners who skirmish.

Your mention earlier that you don't feel that the army can be competitve w/o big elite blocks. My experience tells me the opposite. A Skaven army that has 4 blocks of 25 clanrats with Ratling gun, checkered with 4 20 man blocks of Slaves to redirect charges costs a little over 1000pts and you have near 200 rats on the table, and 4 Ratling guns. Take 3 Warlocks and a Warlord and you've got lots of offensive magic and good leadership as well. The remaining points get dumped into jezzails and gutter runners, usually.

I personnaly don't like Plague Monks due to frenzy. I'll take a cheap Clanrat unit any day, especially due to the ratling gun. Stormvermin are semi-competitive but the extra cost normally makes me go back to basic Clanrats.

What else do you think is overpriced in the Skaven book compared to other armies? I think you're wrong, but I'd like to hear some examples.

Zoned

If I recall correctly, Hordes of Chaos is getting the next book, this winter, and Lizardmen come after them.

In my opinion Skaven are far from underpowered. Sure there are a few options that are horrible but they've been that way since the 6th ed book was released. A SAD army is definately NOT lacking in ranged power! I think they're the strongest 6th edition book still out there and are still top tier. 7th edition has made them a little more bearable to play against but not by much.

That being said, the current rumor is that they will be updated mid next year. Dark Elves are about to come out, Mortal Chaos around November, Lizardmen are rumored to be the first 2009 list, followed by Skaven.

I hope this is true and I hope they get some new clanrat/slave models because the only thing keeping me from doing a skaven army right now is the current model range.

Swoop!

fellblade wrote:If I recall correctly, Hordes of Chaos is getting the next book, this winter.

From what i heard about the new Hordes of Chaos book, they are going to be terrifying.

The "Get You By" list certainly is quite terrifying...

Alpharius wrote:The "Get You By" list certainly is quite terrifying...

Proceed...