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Would a slaaneshed-out daemon army approach to stealer shock work, or does the change to 5th ed rending kill off stealer shocks viability altogether?


With scuttlers and carapace upgrades, the basic genestealer clocks in at 24 points.

Seekers of slaanesh clock in 7 points less/model, with an inv save, assault grenades, a 12" charge, and double the base attacks. They lose out on some base stats though. Still, with their deepstrike and 12" charge, you shouldn't end up in a situation where you're taking more than one turn of shooting.

Combine this with the ability to take units of up-to 20 of them and you're looking at some serious assault threats from a reasonable distance.

Fiends of Slaanesh are similar. Again, the big thing is the huge charge move and ability to deepstrike onto the table that really limits how much an opponent can fire at them before they get stuck in.

I've not worked his idea through fully, and cost to make the army may well be a reason that we never see it, as neither fiends nor seekers are cheap models.

You can run 36 seekers and 18 fiends for just about 1150 points. That leaves a decent amount of points to answer the following questions;

Need troop selections for objectives. Stealers get this one.
Need to bring anti-tank firepower. Probably tongue-grinders or tzeentch princes/hqs.
Does the daemonic incursion cause a problem for the list?

I've only got 6 fiends and 12 seekers currently, but playing some 1000 point pick-up games, putting all the cavalry in the first wave has been more than enough to mess up most of the armies I've played against (the all-skimmer list, predictably, caused me problems).

Thoughts?

I think I have a slightly different take on the tactical role of seekers and fiends.

Fiends are a moderately viable anti-tank shock troop. I don't honestly think the monetary cost difference per model between fiends and demonettes justifies using fiends when demonettes will do.

The seekers, since they can take icons, are probably more useful in setting up where you want your assault waves coming in. Otherwise, the monetary cost per model until new seekers are released argues for demonettes for the bulk of your forces.

WS6 I6 rending is probably a big enough advantage that I wouldn't want to meetIf you meet a genestealer shock force with anything but demonettes, and even then the results will probably come down to luck with the advantage going to which side gets the initial charge. Granted, the demonic invulnerability saves basically mean it doesn't matter how many rending hits he gets, but then again you're only going to saving 1/3 of the time against those wounds if you go second. To tilt the odds in your favor, softening the 'stealers up with shooting and maybe a pavane shot or two to keep them out of position.

I think you'd be better served by 3 squads of 17 demonettes with icon and two squads of six seekers with icon for slightly less points. You're probably better off using the fiends to tie up his support stuff.

As far as demonic incursions go, I don't think it matters too much if the Tyranid player is heavy on genestealers and light on shooting. Otherwise, be prepared to curse your reserve rolls.

solkan wrote:
Fiends are a moderately viable anti-tank shock troop. I don't honestly think the monetary cost difference per model between fiends and demonettes justifies using fiends when demonettes will do.

I'd prefer to think about this without the burden of financial costs creeping in. Maybe it'll be an expensive army, but will it work? Based on point-cost, fiends are a good buy compared to daemonettes, and seekers are an extremely good buy.

WS6 I6 rending is probably a big enough advantage that I wouldn't want to meetIf you meet a genestealer shock force with anything but demonettes, and even then the results will probably come down to luck with the advantage going to which side gets the initial charge.

Against stealers, they have one advantage - higher WS. You have several. 1) cost/model favours the daemons, unless the stealers are skimping on upgrades. 2) Seekers and fiends have a 12" charge, so you should always get the charge. 3) You have grenades built-in on your daemonettes and seekers, so if you charge them in cover, you don't lose I, and if they charge you, they lose an attack. 4) Your attacks/model are higher. 5) Your Inv save means their rending is useless. Without considering the other elements of a stealer-shock force, I'd say the slaanesh daemons should beat the stealers.

I thought of trying a slaanesh shock list, but yah, the sheer cost of it keeps me away.

I think it is viable in 5th since even with just fiends, seekers, daemonettes, and maybe tongue grinder or tzeentch DP's, you can handle vehicles. Fiends, at str 5 and 5 attacks base, can catch and still damage most vehicles. Skimmers are always a pain but even seekers have a good shot with how many attacks they throw out. I think the list would struggle the most with horde orks. Seekers/daemonettes/fiends may be able to throw out massive attacks, but against large numbers with T4, you won't rend enough to keep the tide back and with seekers/daemonettes at T3 and fiends at T4, the swing backs will do some heavy damage.

I think for this discussion to be valid you need to consider what will most likely become the new flavor of genestealers in 5th. As a tyranid player myself who talks to a lot of other tyranid players, about two thirds of us are scrapping the extended carapaces in favor of other things. It seems split evenly of those two thirds on people who will be taking acid maw and who will be taking feeder tendrils. One guy is even going to take implant attacks with his acid maws.

So yes I think your slaaneshi shock list will put up a really good fight against those stealers, but the stealer field is changing dramatically in 5th, so going off the usual scuttling, carapaced stealer is faulty. Genestealers are going to be both more numerous and more effective in 5th, if anything.

I wasn't even really considering head-to-head against genestealers, as much as takin a chaos-daemon approach to the stealer shock list.

I think the ability to deepstrike, spend 1 turn under fire, and then get stuck in with your 12" charges is pretty impressive, especially for models that are getting more attacks at mostly the same speed as genestealers, even if they give up a little S/T/WS to do it.

I've been trying something similar...just with Khorne Daemons. Due to run I find that I can get enough units close to the enemy that they have to step forward and rapid fire or assault instead of moving away. It's brutal when it works, but, as everyone points out, skimmer lists were tough in 4th.

I haven't tried one in 5th yet though...

Redbeard, it would be really, really interesting if you were to fight a couple of proxy games with such a list, then write them up and tell us your conclusions. If you have the time/inclination, this would be really helpful- I think you're on to something here.

On a side note, conversions with the plastic daemonettes would be really easy, and much cheaper (and more interesting) than buying fiends/seekers. Someone added the old daemonette torsos onto spiders from the WHFB Skull Pass set, and they looked ace. Those could make great fiends. As for seekers, the old "GS serpent body" trick would do fine there.