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With Black Reach on the horizon, rumors of a Plastic Thunderhawk, and a little playtesting on Saturday, I am extremely interested in a Blood Angels army.

I was wondering what experiences BA players have been having in this new edition, and what peoples opinion of a competitive list.

Is it tons of Assault Marines? What about a Mech Assault army?

Why would you be excited about a ton of assault marines by looking at the Black Reach set? Nary an assault marine to be found!

Black Reach sparked my interest in a Loyalist Space Marine Army. And Blood Angels seems to be the one whose rules I liked.

And your post kinda distracts from my question.

I would like to know what Blood Angel players are experiencing in the new edition and what are the thoughts of competitive BA.

I haven't played a game with the official rules yet, but it looks like a couple of Whirlwinds and a Devastator squad would provide greater support to an assault force. Use the Combat Squads rule to divide the Devastators in two squads to double the number of targets that they can engage, use the Whirlwinds to thin hordes and suppress those units that would otherwise shoot up squads of Blood Angels after their assault. I'd say take three Whirlwinds, but two squads of Dark Angels toting two Plasma Cannons each will make a mess of opposing heavy infantry.

I haven't tried it yet, but 50 assault marines at 1500 points sounds tasty.

Nurglitch wrote:I haven't played a game with the official rules yet, but it looks like a couple of Whirlwinds and a Devastator squad would provide greater support to an assault force. Use the Combat Squads rule to divide the Devastators in two squads to double the number of targets that they can engage, use the Whirlwinds to thin hordes and suppress those units that would otherwise shoot up squads of Blood Angels after their assault. I'd say take three Whirlwinds, but two squads of Dark Angels toting two Plasma Cannons each will make a mess of opposing heavy infantry.

My build used 2 Whirlwinds and a 10-man Dev squad with 4 Missile Launchers, combat squaded to send 2 krak/frag at 2 different targets. I also bought the Devs a Rhino just to have mobile terrain for my assault guys. Good times.

Mech assault never worked for me before, but I loved using Rhinos as mobile terrain. No fun when the engines died, but bonus points for when the extra movement kicked in. I haven't played them in 5th and vehicles are more survivable so it may be possible now. Don't forget your smoke!

You can take several different approaches. The crazy assault force with 40-50 assault marines at mid levels of points works via target saturation. The enemy just can't kill them all before they make it into hand to hand. And once they do, they hit enough of the enemy army at once that it doesn't make too much of a difference when they break combat and have to take a round of shooting.

Fewer assault marines backed up with some long range shooting is the one I favor. You have fewer assault marines moving up the board, but the enemy has a lot fewer models left once you get there. It helps a lot to rough up the things that actually pose a threat to you once you get there, before you get there.

Rhino rush also works...sort of. Doing a rhino rush army, you don't use your assault power so much as your short ranged shooting power. Regardless, with the increased survivability of transports along with the decrease in lethality of having your transport blown up, this army gets a fairly large boost in power in 5th.

In general, I think you'll find that all 3 builds work and work rather well. Which one is "The Best" probably depends more on your play style and your local metagame more than on the actual abilities of the builds themselves.

Wildstorm wrote:Don't forget your smoke!

Smoke'em if ya got'em!

I was thinking that Death Company shouldn't always be fielded with Jump Packs.

The list I was thinking about was maybe a LR Crusader with Death Company and supporting that with Drop Pods.

I played BA a ton in 4th, before the awful new rules came oot for them.

My issue with the rules is that they completely shove you into a few choices which are brutal (Vet Assault Squads, Honor Guard), and away from virtually everything else.

The major weakness of the Jump Pack heavy list used to be anti-tank. Now assault on vehicles is vastly more effective. This is really THE list to build with Blood Angels, IMO.

Dante, was always solid, but with the new Preferred Enemy rules, I think he's a must have for the Jump Pack list.

I'm sure you could have fun with anything, but if you want a power list, it's going to involve Dante, with Honor Guard, lots of Veteran Assault Marines, regular Assault Marines as Troops.

The suggestion of cheap screener Rhinos isn't bad, but then you have to pay for overpriced Tactical Marines to get them.

The suggestion of Whirlwinds is also not bad, they complement the rest of the force well, and blast weapons are much more dangerous since partials went away.

I would DEF field the DC with Jump Packs. I was always very happy with mine in previous editions, and I don't think you're going to get enough of them to merit a LRC to get them there. Or even an LR.

If you'd like to do an LR, take a look at the Terminators. They're actually pretty nicely costed when you consider that you're getting a 30 point DC model with them. I like LCs. Real expensive unit, but it should do what you expect it to very consistently.

You are better off with just using them as classical red marines(esp with the new codex as rumoured).

The questions is if we get a LRR, and what the points cost is.

5 man "jump pack removed" assault squads with a free rhino provides your cheap rhino wall. Dante is with the assault marines, corbulo is with the DC in the LRR. Move forward as fast as possible, with Pref. enemy, and Furious Charge... Charge accross a broad front, and weather the shooting phase.

I tried whirlwinds, and I was unsatisfied. I prefer baal preds. Attack bikes are your anti-tank.

I would find it difficult to justify any 5-man sqauds in this new edition.

Something caught my eye in Assault Marines in Drop Pods.

Assault marines, Baal predators, Dante, Corbulo, attack bikes with Multi-melta's makes for a very competetive BA army. Keep everything within 12 of Dante during assault and watch prefferred enemy in action. Cobulo adds furios charge to the same troops. Very, very brutal. Baal's provide range anti infantry and in a pinch hunt armor. Attack bikes are making a great comback with multi melta's.

Can Assault Marines still have 2x Flamers? In 5th that seems like a no brainer to me. Are Assault Marines better with Jump Packs or with a Free Rhino? In the KP mission, the rhino gives up an extra KP, but it can get your marines where they need to go just as well as Jump Packs, and can provide some cover as well. Is it worth it?

Mahu wrote:I would find it difficult to justify any 5-man sqauds in this new edition.

Something caught my eye in Assault Marines in Drop Pods.

5 man RAS's are the cheapest way to get a screening rhino on the field.. If you want a 10 man squad, get a tac squad with a rhino and nothing else for 230. Or pay 110 to get the rhino that hides your other, more effective elements from harm, and oh, yeah, gives you a throw-away squad that's non-threatening to contest/take objectives. It also gets you another DC, so consider the squad really costs you only 40 points+upgrades. (40 for the rhino, and 30 for the extra DC)

You could buy a cheap pred destructor to do that for you, but then that doesn't allow you any Baal preds. Or you can screen with your baal preds, slowing your line down to a max of 6" per turn to fire everything, or sacraficing firepower to let them do what a rhino should be doing.

If you're podding, you probably want to stick with the rule of firepower over assault. In that first turn, they need to clear the LZ, and they can't do that on bolt pistol alone, IMHO. 10 man tacticals with a special weapon. The Flamer isn't a bad option due to the internal guidance rule, which allows you to drop closer to your enemies than other armies would be able to. Note that a BA sgt cannot get a combi-weapon, more's the pity.

whitedragon wrote:Can Assault Marines still have 2x Flamers? In 5th that seems like a no brainer to me. Are Assault Marines better with Jump Packs or with a Free Rhino? In the KP mission, the rhino gives up an extra KP, but it can get your marines where they need to go just as well as Jump Packs, and can provide some cover as well. Is it worth it?

I'd take two small RAS's with rhinos to screen the real meat. And to clarifiy, there's no 2xflamers for our assault squads, or DA, either.

Here are the top three ways I perceive Blood Angels to be played:


Assault Marine Heavy:

A list containing at least two to three Assault Squads, Death Company with Jet Packs and an Attached Chaplian, Dante and Honor Guard, a Veteran Assault Squad, supported by a few tanks.

I figure you would want Dante there for the ability he grants, if figure you would want the honor guard to protect him and distract fire power from the Death Company. Veteran Assault squads sacrifice scoring status to bring multiple flamers and power weapons to the field. And in this list you are fielding enough jumping running troups, you will be hard pressed to stop them from hitting your lines.


2. Mech Assault

A list consisting of Multiple Tactical Squads in Rhinos, Death Company and/or Veteran Assault Squads in Land Raider Crusaders, Baal Predators, and maybe Dreadnoughts.

The idea of this list is to overwhelm opponents guns with pure armored fury! Because of the increased survivability of most tanks in the game, as well as the much, much better protection of transports gives to troups, it not hard to imagine gunning towards an enemy line and using increased mobility to challenge objectives.

3. Drop Assault

An army consisting of a crap ton of Drop Pods, Tactical and Assault Squads for objective grabbing or contesting. Dreadnaughts, Death Company, and Terminators for distraction and close combat.

I think the DP army is rather viable, you are bringing a lot of LOS blocking terrain with you. 5th's emphasis on objectives means you can play just as defensively as well as offensively. And you can still bring a lot of CC punch. I included Terminators because even though they do not get a DP, they still drop like the rest of the army, and they are some of our best units at taking a charge.


So what do you guys think? Is there anything I am missing? Has anyone tried these types of list? Is there a list type that you think is equal to or better then the ones above?

Thanks for your help.

I think you'd want to seriously consider drop podding Furioso Dreadnoughts combined with Assault Marines and a LRC/LRR (or 2) with Death Company and a Chaplain. Moving at cruising speed the slowest model in your army would be the Raider at 12", and your troops will arrive probably just in time for the Furiosos to drop in and provide close in support.

I personally would stay far away from Whirlwinds unless you know in advance you're fighting a horde-type army. Keeping them out of LoS means they scatter an average of 7" 2/3 of the time, and letting them lurk in LOS makes them the very obvious target of any Str7+ heavy weapon your opponent might have.

If I where to bring templates, the Vindicator would appeal to me more then a Whirlwind. Though I can see a decent SAFH Blood Angels army with Whirlwind support.

If you're doing SAFH there's no real reason to play Blood Angels, although if you're on the fence painting SM red and just running them as generics until you make up your mind isn't a bad idea.

I'd agree with you on Vindis over Whirlwinds, though. Three Vindicators represent a much greater threat than whirlwinds in my playing experience.

I was just making the comment that there is a theoretical place for Whirlwinds.

I believe that BA can bring a SAFH list similar to the Dark Angels version, just wouldn't be as effective.

I am trying to avoid the SM dex, considering it's days are numbered.

sourclams wrote:I personally would stay far away from Whirlwinds unless you know in advance you're fighting a horde-type army. Keeping them out of LoS means they scatter an average of 7" 2/3 of the time, and letting them lurk in LOS makes them the very obvious target of any Str7+ heavy weapon your opponent might have.

Try to put them in trees... they get line of sight so scatter (2D6-4)" and a 4+ cover save.

I was just making the comment that there is a theoretical place for Whirlwinds.

The place I'd recommend Whirlwinds is in a list that plans to hide for a turn or two.

If you plan to deny the enemy targets while you try to sneak Jump Packers up on him, you want your support to be able to do its job out of LoS too. Whirlwinds aren't great or anything, but they're a bit better in 5e, and complement an army that denies targets.