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I have been beating myself up as of late trying to find a good list for Eldar. I'm starting from scratch. I'm going to buy all new models, make a new paint scheme, and figure this thing out.

I need some major help though. Lists that worked for me in 4th dont do it now in 5th. Falcons are out, 2 troops of just Jetbikes are out, and Wave Serphents seem too costly to take. I have to find some ground here. I dont want to start another army and scrap my Eldar. My Necrons dont really work anymore. So I'm waiting for them to attend to their problem. I started Eldar as soon as I heard 5th was going to be released. But I cant make it work!

If anyone has any lists that have worked for them, or ideas on what way to go, I would apperciate it alot. Possibly someone that plays Eldar and what changes they've encountered with the new rules. Ways around them, and tactics that would help a fellow player out.

Heya Silverwarrior...can I ask why you think Falcons are out? If anything they seem even more resilient. Good luck shooting one down that now has a cover save and won't die even if you roll immobilized.

I think Tri-Falcon Eldar aren't as viable anymore, but one fits into an army perfectly.

Two fire prisms and one falcon are the way to go

Tri-falcons are still an option IMHO. Have one falcon carry a squad of warlocks (farseer bodyguards dont have to be with him) and have the other two transport either 2 small squads of fire dragons or howling banshees. because tanks are most reliable, the falcon combines both fire power and transport.

If you really can't stand the idea of mech eldar [which I think is still very viable, just not broken like the old tri-falcon], then you should check out Eldrad+Avatar, throw in a couple of guardian and DA squads on foot, put some Dark Reapers in the back, get a couple of CC aspects or harlies, and you are looking at a pretty mean footslogging force. Of course, I think adding in a couple of Falcons to that only makes it a Lot nastier, especially with Dragons or CC aspects inside, but if you really don't like them..I won't make you :p

For some inspiration on footslogging eldar armies [which function very similarly in 5th to 4th I think..], you should check out Blackmoor's batreps - they are all really well written and full of information. Particularly his series on the LVGT..

Good luck with revamping your eldar! I am in the same process as it is...

Ibushi

Sadly, all the Eldar armies at the LVGT last year were pretty including my own (wasn't optimized in any way).

That's also 4E. You should not use any of those lists for 5E, you won't like the results.

Avatar/Eldrad combo is alot worse than it was in 4E, which is saying something.

Can you give us some examples of why Eldrad/Avatar combo is worse in 5th than it was in 4th?

Well if you don't want to do Mech Eldar, Eldrad/Avatar has repeatedly done well in tournaments that I have been to and heard about as a footslogger list. As far as 4th vs 5th..
Its fine if Stelek doesn't like Eldravatar at all, but I can't think of why it would be worse at 5th. With run and the ability to hit the rear armour of vehicles, as well as being equipped with a melta to take out those shiny new LRs running around these days, the Avatar seems, if anything, better than he was. Especially with making your objective-claiming troops fearless. Thats gotta be nice.

If Stelek has anything to add on why its worse than 4th ed, I would be all ears, but to tell the truth my Eldravatar days are pretty much over myself [i think... ]

Ibushi

I'm not sure what I really wanted to do. Trifalcon is not as good.. Didn't mean to put it as "out". I just cant find a list I know I'll enjoy and at the same time be worth it to play. I do want to win, but I want to enjoy the army I'm playing.

Anyone have any other ideas.

Also, at Ibushi, I do believe I've seen your army in person. Do you have Fire Prisms painted with the same Cheery Blossom design and a mounted Farseer?

With all the marine spam on the horizon I have start to look at redoing Eldar also. I am thinking assault oriented as I have watched a friends shooty Eldar struggle to achieve the same success as 4th.

I just got back from playing against a BT army that had 4 big troop squads and 3 LRC's with blessed hull.

My Eldar crushed them even though my bright lances were useless. We played Sieze Ground Spearhead.

I used Eldrad, Avatar, 10 banshees, 6 harlies, 20 DA's, 20 guardians with 2 star cannons and 2 warlock (spiritseer),5 pathfinders, and 3 wraithlords.
By turn 6 he had no troops left and a beatup LRC. Wraithlords are the bomb! Just mindwar the fist then charge the wraithlord into the troops for the win.

My counter assault units were unbeatable against doomed BT's

I'm not sure what I'll do. I was thinking of using the Avatar with Wraithlords. I'm not too sure how well that'll work for me since I enjoy things with speed.

A Farseer with Doom and Guide, maybe a unit of War Walkers with Scater Lasers, Wraithlords with Brightlances, and a bunch of Guardians with Starcannons.

Thats funny, where did you see them? I used to have a bunch of prisms, and a farseer mounted on a converted weapon platform and vyper. Cherry blossoms, yes!

As for speed, with wraithlords and the avatar gaining run, you can potentially move them 12" a turn, and with everybody else in 40k able to do so, distances should be closing faster than 4th ed., where this army was already very viable.

I like the look of Darrian's footsloggers, and I used to play something similar but with 2 falcons and reapers [a la blackmoor really], and it was glorious. with only 6 banshees and 6 harlequins backed up by the avatar+eldrad I took out everything in combat every single game. With Doom flying around like no other, you can just about kill anything [banshees with 4+ rerolls to kill against T3, or 5s and 6s against anything else, even Tyranid MCs, you can usually get enough wounds to win CC. Harlies are the same really.]. They really won all my games, even though in such small squads.

Guardians with starcannons don't seem like the best idea anymore, with only 2 shots and the proliferation of cover saves....4+ to hit, 4+ to save with 2 shots. meh. 100pts for an EML or 95 for an SL seems a better deal to me. Sometimes i get BLs though, just because if you snipe something with a 2+ save, or with AV, you get back the unit's cost with one kill [typically]. and with eldrad you can often afford to guide one.

Anyway, just some thoughts

Ibushi

what about super duper seer council of doom on jetbikes. I thought they cleaned house stelek?

what about super duper seer council of doom on jetbikes. I thought they cleaned house stelek?

What about wraithguard harlie combo? if you are going to use E man then you need a way to keep him alive. Fortuned wraithguard would seem to do the trick.

Silverwarrior88 wrote:I'm not sure what I'll do. I was thinking of using the Avatar with Wraithlords. I'm not too sure how well that'll work for me since I enjoy things with speed.

A Farseer with Doom and Guide, maybe a unit of War Walkers with Scater Lasers, Wraithlords with Brightlances, and a bunch of Guardians with Starcannons.

Hmmm, you say you enjoy things with speed, yet you're taking a bunch of slow-moving, standoff units. Brightlances and starcannons have hardly any utility in 5th with all the cover saves. That's what others are saying in this thread: the only Eldar shooting that still works decently is Reapers, fire prisms and scatterwalkers.

But if you really enjoy speed, go assaulty mech with wave serpents, banshees & scorpions, harlies in a falcon. The fact that you don't use serpents is probably why you're down on falcons; you need at least 5+ serpents & falcons to increase survivability (6+ is better). Consider a HtH phoenix lord or Yriel in the serpent with the assault troops. Wave serpents aren't too expensive for what they do, and they're essential for an effective mech army, especially assault mech.

And just for the record, you are putting holofields and spirit stones on your falcons, right?

Just to emphasize a point, lets look at those starcannon numbers in detail.

Guardians are BS3, so of their two shots one will hit. It will probably wound, but the marine in cover gets a 4+ save, so it has slightly less than a 50/50 chance of taking out one marine in cover.

So for every 2 guardian units you buy, you're averaging one dead marine. That means if you buy the maximum number of guardian squads (at min size), you've spent over 600 points for the ability to kill a bit less than 3 marines per turn.

And you think wave serpents are too expensive?

There are lots of ways to go in 5th edition. As many people have stated, eldrad and an avatar is still a good combo. A mechanized force is still really good too. You can do foot slogging forces without the avatar and/or eldrad too if you want. Just use wraithguard as your crunchy outer shell and march forward backed up with quins, dire avengers, guardians, and whatever else you like.

If you want more specifics on a build or you want to pick a direction to go, we can work with you to build a list that you might like. So far though you seem to be sending conflicting signals (I like speed but dont' think skimmers are worth it) and the like.