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On the last weekend I got to play my first 2 battles with 5th edition rules (we made hundreds of errors, as we are still not much familiar with the new rules… on the first battle we still downgraded penetrating hits to glances on a 4+ for defiled vehicles instead of using cover saves, on the second one I made a ramming attack with a rhino against the back of a dread … but I made a couple of turns on the way!!!)….

On both occasions I played against a mech templar list sporting the following units…

- Chappy with fist
- Emperor Champion with no cover but 6+ invulnerable vow.
- 2 mech crusader squads (9 each) with close combat weapons and 1 fist each in rhinos
- 1 mech crusader squad (10) with bolters in rhino
- 1 bike squad (4) with power weapon and 2 melta guns
- 1 dread with TLLC and missile launcher
- 1 dread with assault cannon and DCCW
- 1 land speeder typhoon
- 1 vindicator

In the first match I used mi “blue” (ultramarines iconography) White Scars rules all bikers army

- Cheap Chappy on Bike
- Cheap Libby on Bike with familiar
- 3 Elite bike squads (4) with 2 meltas each, tank-hunters and pfisted sarges
- 2 Troops bike squads (5 and 5 +1 attack bike), one with 2 plasmas, one with 2 flames, and power weapon sarge
- 1 scout bikers squad (3) with melta bombs
- 1 attack bikes squad (2) with 2 multi-meltas

The mission we roll was the annihilation one (no objectives but kill points) I kept the elite tank-hunter bikers on reserve, and put the scout biker to perform a flanking attack. My opponent got first turn

1st Templar turn
The rhinos, full of marines, chappy, and champion made an all speed rhino charge though mid-table. The vindi, 1 dread and speeder concentrated on the left (mine) flank to try to put fire into my well hidden bikers without much effect (toughness 5 started to show his magic) The other dread and the bikers move to cover the other flank
1st Bikers turn
I turbo-boosted everything to the center of the table to confront the rhinos and put out of range vindi and dreads. Little fire (just the attack bikes) stunned a smoked rhino.

2nd Templar turn
2 Rhinos form a wall, disembarking their load for a shootout at one of my turbo-boosted squad. Third squad (with champion) kept as reserve. The out of position vindi and dreads came slowly to join the centre map fight. The templar concentrated fire killed 2 bikers from the plasma squad.
2nd Biker turn
Plasma squad moved away from the templars and immobilized a rhino. Attack bikes immobilized the second rhino of the wall. Got an elite squad from reserve that turbo-boosted it on my right flank. Flame squads move to fire and charge on the disembarked templars, joined by chappy and libby. All them combined to shoot (against the bolter templars) and charge (multiple charge against both templars squad)… I had forgotten new counterattack rules, so the chappy I was hopping to leave out of the combat joined it… Initiative 6 libby failed to hurt templar chappy, biker chappy kills 3 bolter templars, sarge killed another one, familiar kills (!!!) a close combat templar, templar chappy pfist put a wound on the libby, but it is passed to the poor and valiant familiar.

3rd Templar turn
Little fire as fire lanes mostly blocked by big melee in the center and parked rhinos. Templar bikes tried a move against turbo-boosted tank hunters… fire saved by 3+ inv, and my opponent forgot to charge with his bikers. On the center the third crusader squad plus the champion joins the central fight tipping the balance in their favor. Libby dies to templar chappy crozius attacks, chappy survives champion attacks, I lost another biker and killed 2 templar (again from the bolter squad, I was concentrating hits on them to get at least 1 kill point from this fight).
3rd Biker turn
Got the second tank-hunter squad from reserve and turbo-boosted it close to the vindi, the dread and the speeder of the left flank. Right flank tank hunters move to fire in optimum melta range to the dread, which they destroyed easily. Attack bikes and plasma bikes failed to hurt the templar bikes Central combat continues… I lost the chappy and one biker and kill 2 marines (only 1 remaining in the bolter squad)

4th Templar turn
Templar bikers fire hurts badly the rightmost tank-hunter squad, putting it to the run… All the concentrated fire from the rest of templar vehicles failed to scratch the leftmost turbo-boosted bikers. The central combat ends, with the sarge of my squad as only survivor, making a run of it. The 2 almost intact crusader squads consolidated to cover the lone marine in the bolter squad
4th Biker turn
Got scout bikers from reserve. They made a successful flank march, coming on the left side (yay!!!!) and charge and blown the second dread with their melta bombs. The tank hunters failed to melta the vindi, bat successfully charge it and destroyed it using the sarge pfist. Regrouped bikers squads plus plasma and attack bikes failed to hurt either the crusader or the templar bikes.

5th Templar turn
Speeder kill just one scout biker, but they fail morale test and breaks, coming close to one of the crusader squad, so they will not regroup in my turn. The tank hunters that have just killed the vindi are charge and killed by the emperor champion and his squad. The lone sarge (flamer squad) just regrouped after the central combat died to a shoot from an immobilized rhino storm bolter (arghhhh!!!)
5th Biker turn
Last melta squad came from reserves to late to make any impact in the game. Bright side, after the champion and his squad charged the tank-hunters they are no longer close enough to avoid the scout bikers regrouping (buffff). In addition the regrouped scouts fired their bolters at the speeder and brougth it down (yay!!!) Plasma bikers failed to kill the lone bolter crusader with fire, but charge it and achieve just one wound, that the crusader failed with a 1.

We rolled for the 6th turn but I get lucky and it didn’t came, so victory was mine 5 (vindi, 2 dreads, speeder and 1 crusader squad) to 4 kill points (both HQ’s, flamer squad and 1 melta squad)

It was almost sure that playing a 6th turn the templar would have got the victory, as both the plasma squad and the scouts were sitting ducks waiting to be charged by my opponent and then in my turn I had not enough firepower remaining to hurt to almost intact crusader squads and/or his hq.

The maneuverability and flexibility that you get fielding an all bikers army in incredible. I denied the vindi one simple good shoot in the all game. In addition toughness 5 save you lots of wounds. Combined with turbo-boosting you can send suicide tank hunters’ squads against the enemy full army, knowing pretty well that at least you wil get the chance to charge a get back your points. The scout bikers with their melta bombs killed almost 3 times their value in points, and give me 2 kill points in just 2 turns, earning the “squad of the game” title.

The second game was played a couple of days later against that same list but I used instead for firs time my blood angels’ 1500 list. Battle report to come tomorrow

I feel c*ck teased, only one good battle report! Looking forward to your BA report, good game

The biggest mistake the Templars player made was not taking the Accept the Challenge vow. It makes templars extremely deadly in CC. I think if he had that vow, the combats might have gone differently at certain points in that game.

Capt K

Lormax wrote:I feel c*ck teased, only one good battle report! Looking forward to your BA report, good game

sorry for the tease... it takes time for me to describe the full battle in English as it's not my native language...

in any case, getting good feedback like yours is a good encouragement to continue writing...

CaptKaruthors wrote:The biggest mistake the Templars player made was not taking the Accept the Challenge vow. It makes templars extremely deadly in CC. I think if he had that vow, the combats might have gone differently at certain points in that game.

Capt K

I have to agree with you... with new edition cover rules not using cover saves to get a 6+ invulnerable save don't look like a good deal to me... any other vow should have paid his point better…

but in any case I thougth that if I ever got a chance in this battle it was due to my opponent army been half vehicles combined with flanking melta bombs plus tank hunters squads...

Two days after the bikers-templars match we played again. In this occasion in bring forward for first time my just painted Mech Blood Angels… My list for 1500 points is as follows:

- Jump-pack Chappy
- Death Company (4 free + 1 paid for) with jump-packs
- 1 Veteran Assault squad (5) with 2 power weapons a 1 power fist
- 3 Full Tactical squads (10 each) with pfist sarge, laser canon and plasma guns, and rhinos
- Baal Predators with Heavy Bolters sponsons

We rolled for mission a got the one with one objective for each side, and the deployment was on long table edges. Got first turn and kept it. We each set the objectives in ruined buildings on each side, and we also divided our forces setting something like a defensive team to guard own objective and an attack team to fight for the enemy one. I split my tactical squads in combat squads, so I got 15 marines and 3 lasscanon with more or less good fields of fire guarding my objective, that was close to the center of my DZ. My attack team was also divided in two. One big main thrust from my right with 1 Baal, 2 pfist-plasma combat squads in rhinos in front and all the jump-packers in reserve. The second flanking force in the left (was a bait) was composed of the 1 remaining Baal a the third pfist-plasma combat squad in rhino.

Templar deployment, mirroring mine, was composed of a defensive task force with the hellfire dread, the vindi, the speeder and the bolter crusader squad and its rhino (that was used during the all game to block most of the LOS to the vindi from my Laser Canons. All them were deployed covering the building with his objective (central placed in his DZ) Attack task force, in hiding hugging the right table edge (my left) was composed of the second dread, the bikers and both close combat crusader squads in rhinos with their hq attached. He tried to got the initiative back but failed the roll, so everything was ready for the start.

1st Blood Angels turn
Overcharged engines!!!! (yay!!!!) Got lucky enough to pass the rolls for all rhinos and baals but for one the rhinos, that got normal movement. Right task force will only need another turn to reach enemy objective. Jump-packers cover themselves behind a hill that occupied the center of the table. The Baal on this group separates a little from the task force to get a shoot at the speeder (only enemy in LOS) (NOTE overcharged make your baals fast vehicles… that means, or so we thought, that they can move 45cm and still shoot one weapon, hope that interpretation was right) Speeder went down in flames from assault canon fire without need for rending. Just two Lasscanons got LOS, both to the empty rhino covering the vindi (one of them defiled) and they just managed to immobilize the templar transport. The left task force moved diagonally in order to put out of the fire for as much time as possible the enemy attack group. That group combat squad debarked to become the first speed bump for the enemy attack group.
1st Templar turn
Attack force advanced, to cautiously I have to say, making a long-long detour to avoid giving LOS to my Lasscannons. Only the bikers are more aggressive, making a turbo-boosting move but still hiding behind every cover available. Vindi moved a little to get a clear shoot at my left attack force rhino. The transport is immobilized and a 3 of the blood angels’ marines hidden behind it died as well. Hellfire dread failed all his shoots (even the TLLC) at my right force baal, and now is a sitting duck in front of all my attackers.

2nd Blood Angles turn
Less luck this time overcharging the engines of my vehicles. The rightmost baal remains stationary, but managed to destroy the opposing hellfire dread. The rhinos in that group only get normal movement, but that was enough for the first of them to reach rapid fire range for its combat squad cargo against the bolter crusader defending the templar objective. Rapid fire results were devastating… to the blood angels!!! Overheat killed the plasma gunner, and no one templar was scratched by the bolter fire. Jump-packers supported this attack, but are still far from charge range. Lasscannons failed to hurt the defiled vindi, and the leftmost combat squad, reduced to the plasma gunner and the pfist sarge, move to rapid fire and speed bump the bikers. The plasma fire is saved by turbo-boosting invulnerable save (NOTE: we forgot that with the new rules, it is no longer an invulnerable save, but a cover one… and with the templar vow selected they can not use cover saves!!!)
2nd Templar turn
Vindi backpedaled to try to stop my attack at his objective. It shoot and failed to hurt the opposing predator (I think here he made bad decision… firing at the jump-packers would have been a better choice) Bolter crusader returns rapid fire into the closest combat squad (again an error… jump-packers were also in rapid fire range and are a were a bigger menace) My squad loosed 2 models (leaving just pfist sarge and a bolter marine) and then failed their test and break. Bikers fired and charged the speed bump squad, managing to kill them before the pfisted sarge could swing Rest of the attack force continue to advance cautiously near the right (my left) table edge. Now I got range an LOS to one of the rhinos, but it blown smoke. The dread assault cannon immobilized my left group baal.

3rd Blood Angel turn
Bad luck again overcharging engines, the still mobile baal stalled, (out of range to fire at the vindi) Second rhino in right attack group arrive at objective building and debarks its combat squad, which rapid fire managed to kill 4 crusaders, but again fried the plasma gunner on double ones. The routed combat squad regroups. Laser cannon fire managed to shake the vindi, Jump-packers split. The out of charge range death company and chappy move diagonally to center in order to support next turn either the attack on enemy objective or the defense of mine The veteran assault squad close on the bolter crusader, pass the necessary difficult terrain roll and charge the templars, getting the best of them (only to crusader remained) The immobile baal failed to hurt the smoked rhino.
3rd Templars turn
Attack force, in order to avoid the lasscannons and the immobile baal continue their detour out of LOS (but far far away from my objective). The closes of the rhinos debarks their cargo. Only the bikes came close to my objective (playing the bait role and again turbo-boosting to get their “fake” invulnerable saves) The vindi could not shoot but tried to run away from the veteran assault squad and their fist. The combat in the templars objective ended with the remaining crusaders impaled in the blood angels power weapons. The veterans made their consolidation move closing on the vindi

4th Blood Angel turn
The leftmost lasscannon teams, ignoring the bikes, move to speed bump the remaining templars. The 2 other lasscannon teams ignored also the bikes and put fire on the (again) obscured vindi without luck. Veteran assaulters close on it, impacting on 6’s, immobilized it with normal attacks but failed to destroy it with the fist. The combat squad closest to the enemy objective occupied it, sitting in cover (for the rest of the game). The regrouped combat squad plus de death company positioned themselves to support the defense of my objective. The far right baal stalls again trying to overcharge engine to came close to the defense zone. Empty rhinos are luckier. One of them tried a ramming attack (after moving 15cm turning 90 degrees and them moving another 30cm) on the back of the dread, but failed to hurt it
4th Templar turn
The immobile vindi tried to kill the veteran assaulters firing at 0,1cm range… it missed. The bikers arrived close to my objective but out of charge range of the defending combat squads. Their fire failed to kill any blood angel. Dread is luckier, firing at extreme range for his assault cannon and killing 1. The debarked templars collide with the speed bump I placed kill them on the charge and consolidate forward, but in all they move just about 15 cm this turn… without speed bump and using running the may have reached the objective. The other crusader squad debarks their rhino close to the first.

5th Blood Angels turn
Veteran assaulters destroyed on auto hits the vindicator. Death company assault and kills bikers, rending and furious charge doing their magic… (it was an error…. they should have charged the closest crusader squad) Objective occupied by 3 combat squads (2 laser and the regrouped one) and the far away baal coming to reinforce… there is no way I hell am losing this one… just in case one of the empty rhino performs a Tank Shock against the second crusader squad, forcing it to move backwards (out of range from the objective… he should have tried death or glory using an initiate pfist, but declined)
5th Templar turn
In spite of mathhammer and theoryhammer saying he has already lost my opponent tried to get the miracle done… he will need magical rolls a 2 additional turns for his 2 squad plus dread to clean the objective… the beginning was promising, as the both crusader squad charge the death company and without litanies of hate and furious charge, 5 marines + chappy, ever rending, are no match for 20 marines + chappy + champion… Crusaders consolidate close to the objective (but still not disputing)

Rolled for 6th turn and it didn’t came… so victory for the red marines!!!! In addition, summing kill points I got a 5 to 3 advantage.

I got the feeling that winning this battle was due to my opponent detour…. So we can say the squad of the match were to 3 combined lasscannons squads in their commanding positions, although they did not kill a single enemy model in the all game!!!

I play Blood Angels, so noticed a couple things...

In turn 2, you mentioned overcharging the engines in your vehicles. If you were planning on disembarking out of the rhinos to shoot I wouldn't advice overcharging. You can't disembark if it moves over 12 anyway, so if you had rolled a 1 you would've been sitting there for a turn. Take the safe 12 inches and don't roll

In Turn 4, the veterans charged the Vindicator. What attacks did they use on it? I'm just wondering if you remembered Krak grenades or not

My last suggestion is swap the plasma with melta. Opens up a few more options for you. You can get a high power shot off and still charge. They have the option of rolling up on Land Raiders and actually doing damage. AP 1 is nice against those troublesome Eldar skimmers. Finally, no chance of overheat. The only thing you lose is that 2nd shot.

Nice balanced list though, was fun reading about the carnage. Thanks for the report!

Lormax wrote:I play Blood Angels, so noticed a couple things...

In turn 2, you mentioned overcharging the engines in your vehicles. If you were planning on disembarking out of the rhinos to shoot I wouldn't advice overcharging. You can't disembark if it moves over 12 anyway, so if you had rolled a 1 you would've been sitting there for a turn. Take the safe 12 inches and don't roll

In Turn 4, the veterans charged the Vindicator. What attacks did they use on it? I'm just wondering if you remembered Krak grenades or not

My last suggestion is swap the plasma with melta. Opens up a few more options for you. You can get a high power shot off and still charge. They have the option of rolling up on Land Raiders and actually doing damage. AP 1 is nice against those troublesome Eldar skimmers. Finally, no chance of overheat. The only thing you lose is that 2nd shot.

Nice balanced list though, was fun reading about the carnage. Thanks for the report!

completaly forgot about the krak granades... charged the rear armour with normal attacks... hitting on 6's (vindi has moved 30cm) and glancing on 6's...

Exchanging plasma per melta sound like a good idea, more over after getting two overheat losses in the first match... in any case the main role for that little comabt squads is not assult but rapid fire after disembarking ... assulting is only a secondary... and thats the idea of the sarge pfist.

thanks for your comments..

i also use blood angels. i like ur rapid fire strategy i do it with 9 bolters and a plasma gun though for 5th i changed the las cannon for a missile launcher in one of my tac squads. i can either shoot a tank or some troops. good both ways. i totally like assault squads over vet assault squads. being a troops choice helps, and to remember you you can only ram if you move straight ahead no turning in any way. i would go with chaplain lemartes if you use a chaplain. wasnt sure which you got. ur amy list worked out good though. somehow we blood angels do good against other marines. we can shoot and assault with good results.