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does anyone have it? I have the rules on paper but we're moving soon and I'd like to have a back up. and I've had this paper for a long time and it could use replacing.

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/gaming/deathwatch/default.htm

if I give my commander a storm bolter with krakken bolts does it just nullify the rapid fire?

Er. Storm Bolters aren't considered either a Bolter or Combi-Bolter, so I believe you can't use any special ammo. But if you use Kraken with a regular bolter, you still get Rapid Fire to 12".

the commander in the picture with the thousand sons has a storm bolter.

Doesn't mean you can't have one.

The rules say, "The Captain may select items from the Space Marine armory."

You just can't have one with the special ammo.

Just so you know, these are no longer valid in GT Tournament play ( and thus, many RTT's won't allow them).

They are pretty much outdated.

I was doing a DeathWatch army for the GT....I may still be able to do it using the new book and Sternguard Veterans.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Er. Storm Bolters aren't considered either a Bolter or Combi-Bolter, so I believe you can't use any special ammo. .

except that it says this..

All models not armed with a special/Veteran
weapon may be issued with one of the
following special ammo types: metal storm
ammunition at +5 pts; inferno bolts at +5;
or kraken bolts at +5 pts. Note that the
same ammo must be used throughout
the squad.

that leads me to think even the stormbolter can use the rounds..

However, I'd be curious to know what the developers had in mind when they wrote this.. It wouldn't have been too hard to add something stating that stormbolters could or could not use the specialized ammo..

However, earlier in the document it says "This ammunition may only be used with a bolter or the bolter part of a combi-weapon." So, you're right in that the model armed with the stormbolter can be issued the special ammo, but pretend instead that we're talking about the Captain taking a Plasma Pistol and a Power Fist from the Space Marine armory. Could he use the ammo with either? Of course not. Neither of those are bolters or combi-weapons with a bolter. Is the stormbolter a bolter? From a fluff perspective, yes. If there was somewhere that said that stormbolters were bolter-bolter combi-bolters, then yes. But technically, no, they're not.

That still doesn't override the special ammunition's rules of only applying to a Bolter or Bolter component of a Combi-weapon. Simply that they may be upgraded with these. Also on the 1st page there is a line about Deathwatch members must be equipped with either a Bolter or Combi-Bolter, though you might debate if that line refers to only upgrade Deathwatch or Actual Kill team members.

damn Ninja'ed by DBM

Kroeger wrote:That still doesn't override the special ammunition's rules of only applying to a Bolter or Bolter component of a Combi-weapon. Simply that they may be upgraded with these. Also on the 1st page there is a line about Deathwatch members must be equipped with either a Bolter or Combi-Bolter, though you might debate if that line refers to only upgrade Deathwatch or Actual Kill team members.

damn Ninja'ed by DBM

LOL. Right - I take that rule to be specific to DW models in an army rather than Kill Team members, but that's just my read of it.

My thoughts exactly, just pointing out that it has a bit of GW'esq uncertainty written into it.

I wasn't completey convinced that my argument would hold much water..

Although for some reason, perhaps it was old information, but I thought a stormbolter was considered a bolter. In fact it was the upgrade or technological advance from the combi-bolter. at least the bolter-bolter that is utilized by CSM. perhaps that info was lost in rogue trader and I am just misremembering..

I've always let my opponents upgrade their stormbolter ammo. it's just one guy, so it's not that big of a deal to me..

two_heads_talking wrote:I wasn't completey convinced that my argument would hold much water..

Although for some reason, perhaps it was old information, but I thought a stormbolter was considered a bolter. In fact it was the upgrade or technological advance from the combi-bolter. at least the bolter-bolter that is utilized by CSM. perhaps that info was lost in rogue trader and I am just misremembering..

Nah, you're remembering correctly. And heck, I mean, True Grit is for bolters and combi-bolters only, but GKs get to True Grit their stormbolters. This is just a matter of GW inconsistency. Egads, look at how with the latest set of FAQs we have loyalist land raiders with three subtle, but different rules.

two_heads_talking wrote:I've always let my opponents upgrade their stormbolter ammo. it's just one guy, so it's not that big of a deal to me..

Yeah, in a friendly game, if my opponent wanted to do it, I'd explain my interpretation of the rules, but I don't think it's a big enough game breaker for me to argue about it. And considering that Deathwatch aren't tourney legal, it's not something opponents or judges there will have to worry about.

where is the landraider faq your talking about?

The issue is referenced in Stelek's discussion in this thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/215282.page, and in this thread about the new FAQs: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/214332.page (on page 3). Not to hijack this thread, but if you look at the WH codex, their Land Raiders don't get the Machine Spirit special rule. SM's, of course, get the Machine Spirit rule, but per the latest DH FAQ, GK LRs and LRCs get a Machine Spirit rule that is slightly different from the SM Machine Spirit rule. And non-GK LRs in the DH codex also get no Machine Spirit.