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Your gaunt brood isn't scoring if it's lurking on the objective without Synapse.

Lormax wrote:Your gaunt brood isn't scoring if it's lurking on the objective without Synapse.

Explain to everyone in the audience why it would be lurking.

Then why it wouldn't be scoring (read the 5E rules and explain).

Danke.

How competative do you see it being? I think if we do end up seeing a lot of land raider spam at ard boyz this would be the type of list to take it down easy.

actually its 44 T6 wounds with the guard.

do you think it would be worth one ravener to add 3 more MC wounds (chitin on the heavy fex's)?

Why do I need to read the 5E rules to explain? I'll read the Tyranid Codex to explain.

If all models in a Tyranid brood begin their movement phase more than 12" away from a Synapse Creature, and that unit is not falling back or already in combat, it will revert to Instinctive Behavior. Choose each brood in this situation in turn, and apply the following rules:

- If you want to move that brood that turn for any reason, it must take a Leadership test at the start of its Movement phase. If this is failed, the brood will fall back as it had failed a Morale test. If it is passed, the brood may act as normal.

- Alternatively the brood may Lurk. This means it will remain stationary that turn but may fire its weapons as normal. Lurking units that are not Monstrous Creatures add +1 to any cover save they may benefit from. Lurking Tyranids may not claim objectives or hold table quarters.

Thats why the gaunt brood isn't scoring.

Thankfully, I know the rest of the 5E rules.

Do you know why a unit, coming on from reserve on turn 5 (or 6, or 7) is NOT subject to this rule and thus is indeed a scoring unit?

I'd give you a reference, but you are doing so well and I really do want you (and everyone else) to understand why it IS a scoring unit.

Remember it's very low LD and on my board edge, and Tyranids do not "fall toward" Synapse anymore (per the FAQ) so I can run it off the board on turn 4.

Have a drink on me, and go find the rules!

Khornatedemon wrote:How competative do you see it being? I think if we do end up seeing a lot of land raider spam at ard boyz this would be the type of list to take it down easy.

actually its 44 T6 wounds with the guard.

do you think it would be worth one ravener to add 3 more MC wounds (chitin on the heavy fex's)?

I see it being quite competitive. At a Ard Boyz you have alot of of the same core, but 18 raveners really isn't something most armies like to see.

Not and 6 Fexes, a bunch of Rippers, and 2 tyrant super units.

Anyone who brings a Flyrant to the Ard Boyz is a dummy, IMO. Easy to kill at 2500 points.

Here's the FAQ

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/assets/40k/5th-ed/2008_Tyranids_FAQ.pdf

Nowhere in there does it say that Tyranids don't fall toward Synapse anymore. Where are you getting that ruling?

You don't get the point of the army.

By the time turn 5 comes around, the two Tyrants are dead (or you've tabled your opponent).

No tyrants, no synapse creatures to fall back towards so they fall off the table.

Then I come back on the table.

And you haven't answered the question yet.

Answering a question with a question = bad.

Do you know why a unit, coming on from reserve on turn 5 (or 6, or 7) is NOT subject to this rule and thus is indeed a scoring unit?

This question? Yes, I understand that you don't take an IB test when you come on from the board edge.

So you're relying on your opponent to fall into the gimmick of your army, meaning please kill my tyrants. Any player worth a damn will see the gimmick quickly and either allow the Tyrant to stay alive if it's not contesting, or use whatever unit(s) he's sent to take your objective (which it sounds like they'll make it there unmolested, or at least have very little resistance) to stop your gaunts from getting close enough to the objective to claim/contest it.

Gimmick armies in 5th will fail, especially one that hinges it's strategy on something that thin.

Wait, did you just call a Tyranid MC Assault list a gimmick?

I'm confused, how do you get to an objective uncontested?

The rest of the army doesn't exist?

You do realize if you have a fast army (mech eldar come to mind) or a scout army, one tyrant super unit is going to stay behind and deny you the ability to take my objective (and nullify most of your "gimmick")?

See, being a gimmick means you can stop the gimmick.

Being a tournament army means you cannot stop the gimmick.

This army is easy to stop in 4E. In 5E as the RAW stands now, everyone gets a 4+ cover save. That makes it impossible to stop.

how do you group the units to give everyone cover saves?

You put the Tyrant Super units in cover.

You put the Carnifexes behind.

If you have Raveners, you put them in between the Super units and the fexes so you get more LOS blocked from more directions.

Rippers and gaunts block los to precisely nothing but each other.

How would you handle Mech eldar with a list like this? More in the higher points brackets like 1750 and up.

Khornatedemon wrote:How would you handle Mech eldar with a list like this? More in the higher points brackets like 1750 and up.

Spread out, run no cover screen, charge at 'em.

Mech lists can be really annoying to deal with when you have no shooting, but that's the way it is.

Oh and don't edit the articles down to the format YOU like. I put them together in the format that is most easily accessed by the most people.

How strong are the ripper swarms? Can they contest OBJ's? I know they cant claim them.

They can contest.

They cannot score.

They are hard to get rid of without a really good CC unit to do it. Shooting is generally pointless.

In Kill Points and Secure Ground Missions (D3+2 Objectives), how do you see this faring? Gaunts coming back on the board on turn 5 or 6 will need half-decent fleet rolls to take objectives placed 12" away from the table edge. I don't see this scoring loads of points in KP missions.

KP Caveat: My local metagame is almost entirely mechanized, so the 'nids have a rough time at the moment.

Stelek wrote:They can contest.

They cannot score.

They are hard to get rid of without a really good CC unit to do it. Shooting is generally pointless.

I dunno about that mate. Lets take your 'ard Boyz LR army full of flamer goodness. At 2500pts you have units of 8 Rippers, get the right firing arcs to go straight up the swarm unit itself and you'll hit em all or most at the least. Templates doing double wounds on the Rippers with multiple flame shots will annihilate your rippers incredibly fast and cancel it. 18 Ravenors at 2500pts is pretty solid also, but a lack of synapse within range of them will also see alot of them dead to heavy weapons fire and instant death, but it's 3am and I am bloody tired so won't advance too much in this reasoning.

What I would like to say though is from what I've read of your stuff through the boards so far, it's pretty solid, and I'm quite enjoying the ideas. However, when Lormax responded to you you came across as an antagonistic prick, and seriously, all you had to do was quote a page reference and the relevant rule and you would have helped not only Lormax to understand what he had missed but anyone else not up to scratch with the rules which is a fair chunk of the dakkadakka community from casual perusal of threads across the boards in the 40k section. So next time, instead of being all high and mighty, you might consider pulling the pole out your arse for just a moment and think of EVERYONE not just yourself...because you know, THAT would be really a heck of alot more helpful then antagonising people and avoiding addressing the question inherent in a claim you know for certain, properly backed up, is void.

Cheers,

Auretious Taak.

Howdy Stelek,

Its a good list! hand it to you for reading the codex well, and making a decent list. I think two Tyrants with six guards is a nice core and the raveners give you some nice swift support. But keep the raveners in close to the tyrants or they can be instant killed.

But its not the meanest nid army you could come up with surely!

And the army has an obvious weakness: If it comes up against a committed defensive army or something mobile like your own DE raider list it will have trouble getting into CC.

After the discussion about your DE list I re-tuned my nid idea and found a combination that could trouble this one.

A really important question in any game is who gets to charge who. If someone is waiting for your charge and carrying assault weapons and has supporting units of gaunts for shields there is a reduced chance your MC will get the charge and a heightened chance the waiting force MC will charge you. They can fall back to stay just beyond 13" and get the extra turn shooting as well as the charge when you finally arrive.

I don't mind your acidic style at all Stelek, so you can be as rude as you like within forum standards in reply. I hand out plenty of rudeness myself sometimes and don't mind it, comes with the territory.

Sure I could give you a run for the money, but agree that you have more playing experience and understanding of the rules than me!

OTG

I saw you talking about 'ard boyz earlier and most of them have degrees of winning. and 2/3 missions involve objectives at least so controlling 5 objectives instead of one could mean a massacre instead of minor victory which is very important to 'ard boyz ranking. I'm not saying that this list sucks in fact i think it would be very scary to face I'm just wondering how you would get around that obstacle?
(i know 'ard boyz is over but for next year cuz i got a bunch of unbuilt tyranids itching to be built for competitive play)