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I know the new eldar dex has a Harlequin entry, but I've some old models I used for my DE, as both races could take them. Now does the entry now pretty much wipe out the old harlequin dex or what?

It completely overrides the old 3rd edition trial Harlequins codex.

Or it doesn't. Who can say, considering the old Harlequin 'dex was never "offcial tournament legal" anyway? I guess it's just as (il)legal as it ever was.

I'd have to go back and look, but since the 3rd. ed. harlequin 'codex' was, in fact, an experimental codex put in the old Citadel Journal, it was always required tournament organizer consent.

From Jervis in 2000 (beginning of the 'codex')

...feel free to use the list in any games of 40k that you play, though if you're playing in a tournament you should make sure that the tournament organisers [sic] are cool with you using a list that hasn't been published in a codex.

(emphasis mine).

Alright, I don't think I'd use them in a tourny anyway, just didn't want to have some useless models

I actually have a 2000 point harlequin army (citadel journal) with converted jetibikers, vehicles, and characters. With the new eldar codex a lot of their character was removed.

It would be fairly easy for GWS to publish an army list in White Dwarf. In 2nd edition it was possible to field an entire army of harlequins. The fact that they are now reduced to a de-charactered elite choice in the eldar codex is rather insulting to players. Chaos Dwarfs at least still have an army list that their players can use during games despite having a smaller miniature line than harlequins.

@Grunt13: You're not alone there. Quite a few people had harlequin armies back in the RT/2nd ed days.

I had a small harlie army (Great Harlequin, shadowseer, solitaire, one mime troupe, two troupes of harlequins (16), 2 death jesters (one on a War Walker) 5 harlequin bikers and a Dreadnought (wraithlord). ). OK, not really 'that' small, but it was only part of the eldar army I did have (including exodite knights as well).

When various issues made me give up gaming for a few years, I gave this army (save the foot DJ - with the raised shuricannon RTB 6/16) to a mate (who moved to Israel not long after).

The CJ list is still a 3rd ed list (alongside the DH and DE), but it has the same issues as the Lost and the Damned, Feral orks & kroot mercs lists. All of their 'parent' codices have since been replaced, so they've been 'orphaned'.

To the OP. You might find a gaming group that would let you use it (or any of the other orphaned lists), but you'd be hard pressed to find a tourney that would allow it these days.

I just checked out the CJ list. It does not reference an eldar codex at all. It is a self-contained codex in its own right. So does that mean it is just as viable as it always was? Having different rules for harlequins as an elite choice for the eldar codex does not automatically cancel out a stand-alone codex. I pretty sure kroot mercs are in the same situation.

It looks like I might start playing my old Harlequins again if I am right about this. Here are some pics:

Grunt13 wrote:I just checked out the CJ list. It does not reference an eldar codex at all. It is a self-contained codex in its own right. So does that mean it is just as viable as it always was? Having different rules for harlequins as an elite choice for the eldar codex does not automatically cancel out a stand-alone codex. I pretty sure kroot mercs are in the same situation.

This has already been answered in this thread. The CJ list was never tournament legal and it certainly is not now.

shirou wrote:This has already been answered in this thread. The CJ list was never tournament legal and it certainly is not now.

The point I was trying to make was as the harlequin codex DOES NOT use an old outdated codex as a reference to its units and wargear. It is a self-contained codex. Unlike the LatD codex which requires the old chaos marine book, which is no longer viable. I was under the impression that they were voided the in the same manner as LatD – hence my post.

My gaming circle allows the use of units from chapter approve as long as the units are not removed by updated rules (chaos cultists ). While I didn’t expect to find a tournament that would permit harlequins (I couldn’t when the rules came out in CJ, but I remember hearing that some allowed them), I felt that it was worth mentioning to those who were considering making the argument for harlequins to their gaming groups.

A legal army using the new codex can have 3 units of them, flesh it out with jetbikes as troop choices and possibly Morgan Ra as a HQ and you aren't far of a Harliequin army...
Mick

the old list sucks big time anyway, i used to have a harlie army and it was a feat of epic proportions to win with them. You paid too much for a harly, 25 points i think and he was far inferior in that list to what you get in the current dex.

The Venow was bad ass though as was putting a d-cannon on your wraithlord.

and of course, the Solitaire was just the coolest character in the game. I wish they wuold bring him back, even if only for Apocolypse.

Given that the CJ harlequin codex was written for 3rd ed, and didn't refer back to the main eldar codex, then you should quite happily be able to use it in games of apocalypse.

Lets face it, just about all of the FW:IA stuff was first done for CJ. If you can use them, what's te difference?
Apoc is all about getting together with your group and deciding what units can and can't be used, after all.

Besides, they have a "lost and the Damned" datasheet.
It should be a simple matter to do up a Harlequin datasheet that uses enough of the rules to get the right feel.