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I just played three games against the new list, once in 4th, and twice in 5th, and I can't say that I'm impressed. Is there something that I'm not seeing about this list that makes it impressive?

All three games are similar. The first wave comes in, and is hella scary until my shooting phase wipes all the banners from the board. Stuff comes in piecemeal, scatters either too far away, on top of my troops and mishaps, or close enough so that I rapid fire it to death. My IG were actually in HTH and winning against bloodletters (Five man command squad vs 3 remaining bloodletters, who charged).

Is your experience different?

What were they using to summon on first turn???

I've never really had any problem with summoning off my icons. Then again I run a 20 man plague bearer unit with a nurgle herald.

I think a big problem with deamons right now is that you don't exactly have easy access to a lot of the powerful units.

Seekers are out of print and 3 soul grinders are expensive and take a really long time to paint.

I've seen a lot of people running one god forces becasu that's what they happened to own when the codex came out.

When people start building this force for real it will be scary. When this army gets a good match up and every thing clicks just right the other army doesn't have much of a chance.

My proxied list didn't give a black templar player a chance at a 3rd turn when we played last week.

if you want seekers. i just converted some beastmen centigors. clip of the top half and replace it with a daemonette half amking htem look like daemonette horse like thingies. looks rather sweet.

on topic, i deploly most of my army concentrating on one flank of the enemy trying to avoid the shooting from the sid ei try to avoid. and deepstrike 1 or 2 units for given objectives. im kinda surprised. i fought guard and flamers never looked sweeter.

Pdeflorio wrote:What were they using to summon on first turn???

I've never really had any problem with summoning off my icons. Then again I run a 20 man plague bearer unit with a nurgle herald.

Ummmm, Codex: Daemons, half the army comes in automatically on the first turn........................... Now which half is up to the dice!

The first was a trigod force. A couple of Princes, Skarbrand, 'letters, Skulltaker, and some tzeeench shootie stuff. Oh, and fiends. I think the Masque got in there somehow as well, but I might be wrong. No Nurgle.

He actually did the most damage, but it was still lopsided in my favor, and hadn't castled (because we were in fourth, and deamons in CC would roll through my whole army). We were playing an RTT scenario that allowed troop recycling, and I never needed to recycle my troops. It was still fourth, and my impuse was to hug cover got me into trouble because I was streched out but also saved me from HTH-lather-rinse-repeat.

The second had a Grinder, and some Plague Bearers, Letters, seekers, screamers, and flamers. There was a DP and Bloodthirster as well. Something else was in there, but I forget what it was. 5th ed. Spearhead, C&C.

I castled around my deployment zone, he took the first turn, dropped everything in, and got the right things in. There was a mishap or two throughout the game, costing him two units at least. The only Icon he got onto the board were some plague bearers on his objective. I got really lucky, and on the second turn, got my 2 outflanking sentinels, and my two outflanking vet squads to appear right next to his objective, forcing him to have to summon the screamers/'letters next to his objective to keep it. My sentinels charged both units, and held them up, while my vets charged the PB's and held their own next to the ojective. He was never able to crack the castle I built, and that was that.

The third game was even worse, as the third opponent didn't even get the right force in. There was one moment when was able to summon a Nurgle DP right next to my lines via a banner, and there was a khornate DP from a prior turn right next him. But after my shooting phase, they were both down to a wound left. I charged them with five ogryns, and they both went down on the same turn. At the end of the game, all he had left were some horrors in a far corner, and a bloodthirster that had been sent to a far corner via mishap. That was the game my guard were killing 'letters in CC.

Epidemous, Plague Beares, Soul Grinders, The Masque (to arrange pie plate hits) give me fits. Never enough firepower to get through all the T5 -> Invulnerable -> Feel No Pain rolls.

Sadly, the Demon Codex, at least in our playgroup, has had the exact effect I was afraid of when Codex: CSMs came out. Slannesh (Deamonettes) and Khorne (Bloodletters) are second class to Nurgle. My Word Bearers army never got completed, and now the bulk of the models I bought for it are the weak side of the new Codex.

Grinders? They can't be marked, and therefore don't count to Epidemous's tally.

First of all, given the choice Daemon armies should almost never take 1st turn, that's one less turn of shooting your opponent gets. Castled IG is probably one of the hardest armies for daemons to face - there's no room to DS in the formation, all of our cc units are overkill for an average guard squad, and there's too many of them since we can't consolidate from combat to combat. Add to that that our daemons are really weak to mass weak shots, like Guard specialize in, and daemons are in trouble.

The Daemon codex is really not one of the hyper-powerful ones out there. However, it does have at least one ridiculous power build. Fateweaver + plaguebearers + three grinders + as many bloodcrushers as you can pack in will give people fits. Of course that build suffers from being prohibitively expensive from a monetary standpoint. Yet it is an undeniably powerful army build.

under 5th my daemon army just got stronger. The new 4+ cover save rule works really well for most daemons. I've had no trouble with IG so far but then it looks like I use more big guys than the people you played against. I've found the heralds too weak for my style of play though or maybe I just like the daemon MCs

im confused i noticed the the KoS is just as easy to kill as a herald on chariot

tzeentchling wrote:First of all, given the choice Daemon armies should almost never take 1st turn, that's one less turn of shooting your opponent gets. Castled IG is probably one of the hardest armies for daemons to face - there's no room to DS in the formation, all of our cc units are overkill for an average guard squad, and there's too many of them since we can't consolidate from combat to combat. Add to that that our daemons are really weak to mass weak shots, like Guard specialize in, and daemons are in trouble.

I mistyped that. I won choice, and I gave him first turn.

Bahkara wrote:under 5th my daemon army just got stronger. The new 4+ cover save rule works really well for most daemons. I've had no trouble with IG so far but then it looks like I use more big guys than the people you played against. I've found the heralds too weak for my style of play though or maybe I just like the daemon MCs

The third player had three DP's (Nurgle, Khorne and Slaanesh), a thirster, and a LoC. The Slaanesh Prince, Thirster and LoC both DS mishapped, with the Thirster and the DP taking a long flight from a corner, and the LoC hitting the rocks hard and dying. All of them scattered over 8 inches straight into my troops. Bad luck on his part.

Bahkara wrote:under 5th my daemon army just got stronger. The new 4+ cover save rule works really well for most daemons. I've had no trouble with IG so far but then it looks like I use more big guys than the people you played against. I've found the heralds too weak for my style of play though or maybe I just like the daemon MCs

The third player had three DP's (Nurgle, Khorne and Slaanesh), a thirster, and a LoC. The Slaanesh Prince, Thirster and LoC both DS mishapped, with the Thirster and the DP taking a long flight from a corner, and the LoC hitting the rocks hard and dying. All of them scattered over 8 inches straight into my troops. Bad luck on his part.

enmitee wrote:


looks like it was a combined series of bad rolls and IG pounding

Pretty much happened in all my games. At least one squad/MC per game was lost to mishap, more often that not multiple units were lost.

I think it's not fair to compare IG vs daemons though. Either you're taking the risk and going for it to get in CC (and having a mishap at least once or twice per game), or you play conservatively and end up getting hosed in the shooting phase. And unlike a Marine army, you're pretty much not going to find space to comfortably drop in the midst of a force.

I'd put PB units with banners down a safe distance away, and hope for the best, myself.