Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I went through the forum and battlecollege and from description the following models seems pretty cool... I am thinking of putting them in 500 points (obviously not all of them will fit...) any suggestions if any of these should be put off for 500 points or i am overestimating their usefulness?

lancer
hunter
centurion
thunderhead
mechanics
precursors +UA?
stormblades + UA?
stormlances w/laddermere - is it good? seems like a good combo but not sure how they will survive the barrage they receive... also wit tons of terrain not sure if they will do much...
gunmage captain adept
Eiryss

I probably use Haley/stryker most of the time and also field a journeyman (who doesnt?!). I am thinking of eiryss and gunmage for solo kills but not sure how effective they will be. I hear Hunter can be a good combo with Journeyman so i might do that too... Any suggestions?

Hi,

The thunderhead, GMCA, centurion and lancer are all things I would consider using at 500 depending on what caster I was using. Stormblades are pretty bad and stormlances and cav in general is too expensive to use until 750 imo.

Depending on which Caster you're using should let you know which jacks you'll be using.

Haley will get a lot of use out of a Lancer and Cent.

Stryker seems to do well with Hunters and Ironclads.

Nemo does well with a Thunderhead.

Caine does well with Hunters or even Chargers

Your Journeyman will do well with a Hunter.

Also with the release of Legends, an auto-include is going to be the Squire.

Other things in the list that are commonly used is the GMCA, Storm Blades, Trenchers, Long Gunners.

For some reason I have yet to see a list with the mechanics in them.

Mercs-Eiryss and Reiholdt seem to be included a lot.

It all ends up with how you want to gear your list. Take a look at your Caster abilities and go from there. Remember to try new things too, as you can find new and useful combos that you may not have seen before.

well i like the long gunners but not sure if their range is that great.. seems they will need to move around a bit to get within their range. I didn't know thunderhead is that many points.. is he worth it in haley army?
Here's what I have available:
Haley
Junior warcaster
Gunmage captain adept
Eiryss
Stryker
Maxwell Finn
Charger
Ironclad
Centurion
hunter
Lancer
thunderhead
6 long gunners + UA (might get 2 more.)
stormblades

most them are coming to me so dont know their points exactly. For 500 points I think the ideal army is 1 heavy, 2 light and rest solo/troops? Perhaps:

TH/Cent with Hunter+lancer ~= 300 points,
haley,eiryss, jwc, long gunners + UA + gunmage?

shaselai wrote:well i like the long gunners but not sure if their range is that great.. seems they will need to move around a bit to get within their range.

The long gunners should stay put almost all the game. The range is enough, and then if you play with stryker cast 6" snipe on them. They are about board control as well as straight damage. The opponent should be wary to come to the range of their attacks.

shaselai wrote:I didn't know thunderhead is that many points.. is he worth it in haley army?

It depends on the rest of your army and your play style. From the figs you have I would make list as follows:

Stryker
^Thunderhead
^Lancer
Junior warcaster
^Hunter
6 long gunners + UA

Stryker casts snipe on long gunners, jwc arcane shield on thead or lancer. Both upkeep the spells. Stryker drops targets using earthquake to help hitting them, rest keep on punishment from far. This list is far from optimized as there is no melee power in it, so when something gets to your lines the body count starts to rise steeply. I would invest in some decent melee unit like storm guard, sword knights or precursors and drop the hunter from their way of the list. Also your long gunners are under strength, the unit would need at least 8 gunners to be efficient ranged threat on field.

Lastly the list didn't have space for GMCA, which is a auto include to me. You need some anti leader/ solo/ stealth power in the list, which is GMCA's speciality.

Why no stormguard? Those guys are full of win.

are stormguard that good? Are they better than precursor knights or swordknights? i can probably only have 1 to field...

For Cygnar's melee infantry, I would rank them as:

Swordknights (if you're fielding jacks with reach)
Stormguard (no. 1 if no jacks)
Stormlances
Precursors
Stormblades

Stormblades aren't that good. They need protected to get into range to do anything, and while their damage output can be impressive - most of the other units can do as much damage for a turn with a mini-feat and are a lot cheaper point-wise. The biggest problem with stormblades is that they're a lot of points for single-wound infantry and most of the other units are a lot cheaper.

Stormlances and Laddermore are good, but that's most of your army at 500 pts. Figure that you'll have the Piper of Ord (Merc Solo) in the list (he gives them great buffs for only 22 pts). And you might want to add a journeyman for Arcane Shield (either on the unit, or if your caster has Shield - Stryker and Haley both do - then on Laddermore). Now you're looking at half your list, about 250 points. I think including 4 Stormlances and the Piper can work at 500 pts, but adding the fifth and Laddermore may limit the rest of your army.

The Thunderhead is good at 500 points, but it's nearly a third of your army. A lot of armies have ways to incapacitate one model - they won't kill it, but they may be able to take away movement, or attacks, or Disrupt it - something to render it ineffective or out-of-the-fight for a round. But, they can generally only do it to one model (maybe one unit), so losing 1/3 of your army can cripple you.

At 500 points, I'd be looking to field:
Caster
1 Light Warjack
2 Units
a couple solos
And you probably can fit in either a second light, one heavy, or cav.

Red_Lives wrote:Why no stormguard? Those guys are full of win.

The storm guard were on my list of melee units, not on the roster I made as they were not on the list of available units.

As for the validity of cygnar's melee units I'm on the same page as dietrich. As most of armies include at least one lancer the sword knights get my vote. With the coming unit attachment they make stormblades look like a way to give your opponent handicap.

The way dietrich gives you a schematic of how a 500 pts army is to be constructed is good advice. As you take that list and fill the "mandatory" cygnar solos and one ranged and on melee unit you are set for some win. I'm including one light and one heavy in my lists as the game is about heavy machines beating each other

I agree with Metsuri on this one. Deitrich had some good advice.

Personally I like a jack heavy force. As I said before, it's all about how you want to play. To me there's not real Auto include except the Jr (or Scout). Other than that it's all up to you.

Right now I'm running nCaine with a Sentinel and Iron Clad along with a Jr. with a Hunter. I'm trying something different and don't have much of a choice on my casters right now.

I don't find the Journeyman an auto-include. It depends on what else is in your list. There's a lot of solos in the 25-35 point range, and some may have better synergy with what you're trying to field.

Also note that with Legends, and presumably the next Hordes release, more and more models are getting ways to play havoc on upkeep spells. Either doing damage to the models, or dropping it, or stealing it, or giving them penalties, so I wouldn't build an entire stratetgy around that one Arcane Shield.

I'm not saying the JWC is a bad solo, he's a great one for 25 points, but I don't think you have to field one. Especially with the Squire in Legends (based on spoilers on PP's forum) being 18 points, I think the Squire will be in more lists and the JWC.

Yes there are now more solos, which compete with JWC for the spot in roster.

But I can't really think of a better way to spend the 25 points unless you are going for a roster, which doesn't need more direct damage spells, jack handling and arcane shield. It is true that figs capable of killing upkeeps are coming along, but JWC is much more than upkeeping arcane shield.

The use of solos all depends on the list you build. I really only give JWC a Hunter, that's 113 points. At 500 points, that's nearly a quarter of my list. At 750 pts, it's a drop in the bucket. With most of our UAs having a Jack Marshall, the JWC isn't as necessary.

Arcane Bolt is pretty meager, with a boosted shot (which takes all 3 of her FOC), you're only hitting DEF 14 on average. Not spectacular. And Disruption hits a Khador heavy on average rolls (and uses all 3 FOC to cast).

I see a lot of people use the JWC as an arcane shield battery, and he does nothing else the rest of the game. Now, if he's throwing it on a full unit of Lances, it's maybe worth it.

Like I said, the JWC is great for 25 points. But, with all the options now available, I wouldn't call him a must have in the list. It all depends on the list and what your tactics will be.

Ok, I see your point. The JWC takes a lot of points with a jack, but I don't see the point of marshaling with any of the available UAs. The 3 focus JWC is much superior to any of them.

Arcane bolt is useful against pistol wraiths and other incorporeal figs. With JWC you have another threat to those, so you can do a bit of traffic control on the board.

Arcane shield on sword knights, dig in trenchers etc. There are so many targets on the field for that spell. When running stryker I'll have two arcane shields all the time and when it's feat time the units are really hard nuts to crack.

I've used JWC with charger and plan to use him with grenadier when I get it. Also thinking about defender, JWC with strangewayes would be good pair running, bit too pricy for 500 though.

Of course the inclusion of JWC to roster is in the end dependent of the strategy and other units in the roster. The JWC together with GMCA are best buys for their roles for me and therefore make their way to most of my lists.

It's amusing to me that the Vassal Arcane Bolts better than
an unboosted JWC.

The JWC is absolutely auto include, all cygnar lists start a -25 pts. He's insane don't cast arcane bolt unless you're going up against incorporeal stuff just cast arcane shield on something, then upkeep it for the rest of the game and boost dmg/attack for a shot the rest of the game. He's crazy good.

I'm not convinced of the effectiveness of JWCs in a Cygnar army. A lot of it seems like anecdotal evidence and people stuck in one dimensional thinking as a result "power" lists. Sure he's got Arcane Shield but really how often is it going to go off in a game? Arcane Shield is overhyped, a smart opponent will get around your Arm. Also a boosted POW 12 gun isn't that great when you consider the amount of guns in a Cygnar list.

I'd rather spend the points on something useful like upping an Ironclad to a Stormclad or buying more Precursor Knights.

Does warseer have a warmachine/hordes forum?

It's under Privateer Press Games.