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Alright we've got a tournament coming up next weekend in our small little shop and I want to do well in it. Here's the setup:

500 Points
Steamroller 3 Tournament Rules (I've yet to read the rules).
You bring two lists
WM & Hordes

Now, here's what I'm pretty sure of showing up:

20+ Bane Knights & Tartaurus
Hailey + Thunderhead
Angelus Everblight
Butcher + Man-o-War army

Basically it's the group of people I play with and some others but each of us have that "special" list that we don't really run for our normal games that will probably come out for the tournament.

Here's what I've got available to make my two Khador Lists:

Sorcha
Vlad
Irusk

Juggernaut
Destroyer
Behemoth
Berserker
Kodiak

10 IFP + UA
5 Demo Corps
Grey Lords
Widowmakers
1 Mortar

Manhunter
Man-o-War Kovnik
Drakhun + Dismount

Eiryss
Lady Ayana & Master Holt

Note I will probably buy Alten Ashley before the event, because I'm a bad person and I know one list should be Anti-Hordes and one list should be Anti-Warmachine.


Now here's the setup:

I'm fairly certain I want Vlad as my caster. He's what I've played the vast majority of my last few games with (am transitioning to Irusk for fun play), and I'm just very comfortable using him.

As far as my lists I'm thinking one WM and one for Hordes. The person playing Everblight is pretty good at annihilating my units, and will probably bring Saeryn + 3 or so Shredders and using the Blight Bringer spell can pretty much nuke my units. Because of that I'm fairly weary of running my normal infantry choices, so my anti-hordes list will not see the IFP or even the Widowmakers. If this is a bad decision (I have limited WM/Hordes experience), please start yelling at your monitors now.

I figure the anti-hordes list should bring a good amount of Jacks, shooting, and armor. I was considering taking the Destroyer or Behemoth for the anti-hordes list, with Alten Ashley, Demo Crew....and then I don't know what. I was considering both the Destroyer + Behemoth, but that's a ton of points and it's probably wasted. So re-thinking it I don't know how many Jacks are actually a good idea. Here's my first round draft:

Anti-Hordes List:

Vlad
-> Destroyer

Man-o-War Drakhun + Dismount
Man-o-War Kovnik
5 Man-o-War Demo Corps
Grey Lords
Mortar Crew
Alten Ashley

Now I could drop the Grey Lords for Ayana & Holt, which I find tempting because even if the Grey Lords are hiding behind the demo crew, a Blight Bringer via Shredder can take them out and I don't know how well they will do to get their Ice Cages off against an army with that kind of speed, though they will allow me to spread out my Demo Corps and use blizzards to block LOS to the unit leader (and the Grey Lords themselves).

Is this a good choice to use? Or am I just being stupid & inexperienced in running my IFP and when playing against someone with this kind of setup I should space my IFP out instead of Shield Wall? I've only played against the list once and it's pretty brutal, so I have fear for what it can do to my infantry.

I'll post up my WM list shortly, though it should be quite a bit different.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Now I could drop the Grey Lords for Ayana & Holt, which I find tempting because even if the Grey Lords are hiding behind the demo crew, a Blight Bringer via Shredder can take them out and I don't know how well they will do to get their Ice Cages off against an army with that kind of speed, though they will allow me to spread out my Demo Corps and use blizzards to block LOS to the unit leader (and the Grey Lords themselves).

Legion beasts all have Eyeless Sight. So not only do they ignore Blizzard for LOS, they ignore the -2 SPD debuff as well. I say swap them for Aiyana and Holt.

Good point on that, I was hoping to protect the Grey Lords from their shooting/spells with the Demo Corps. Still, why would they ignore the -2 SPD debuff?

Model with Eyeless Sight ignore cloud effects while charging, slamming, (trampling?) and making attacks. They ruled that the secondary effects of a spell that is also a cloud are considered cloud effects. Eyeless Sight doesn't apply to advancing, so if they advance, they're saddled with the -2 SPD. Otherwise they charge right through it.

I'll see if I can dig up a link.

I was half right. Eyeless Sight ignores clouds when a model with it declares a charge. After it starts moving, it suffers -2 SPD. So they can still charge, just not as far as usual.

Wow, that's just straight up odd.

Actually, I just found out the Legion player isn't in this tournament, so that second list is effectively wasted since 99% of everyone else playing has WM lists.

I still have to worry about Hailey & Bane Knight lists, but I can accommodate those.

See my editted post above.

Well, if Legion won't be there, that's one headache you won't have to deal with. Good luck with the tourney, and let us know how it goes!

I thought that if a model suffers a movement penalty of any kind they can not declare a charge. Or is that WM only and something Hordes doesn't have to worry about?

I'm hoping to do well, but we'll see. Oddly enough the people I'm most worried about are the ones I play against the most regularly. I just got the Steamroller rules and read the scenarios so it should be pretty interesting to see how it goes.

Now my question is if I should have my second list include running Sorcha instead of Vlad, for some matchups I can see that being pretty good (Hailey). BTW, is Wind Rush's movement affected by Temporal Barrier? It just says that she moves up to her current SPD in inches. EDIT: Never mind, just read the FAQ.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:I thought that if a model suffers a movement penalty of any kind they can not declare a charge. Or is that WM only and something Hordes doesn't have to worry about?

Actually, movement penalties don't prevent charges by themselves. Negative SPD modifiers do. However, it just happens that most movement penalties also prevent charges by way of other special rules associated with them. Temporal Barrier and Rough Terrain are two examples.

Anyways, you are only prevented from charging if you suffer the negative SPD modifier when the charge starts. Afterwards, if you enter an effect that lowers movement or SPD and doesn't have a rule that says you stop immediately, you keep going, just not as far as you would have otherwise.

Examples:
Blizzard. If you start a charge inside a Blizzard, it immediately fails due to the negative SPD modifier. Legion beasts ignore this because they ignore clouds when declaring charges, and Blizzard is a cloud. If one was affected by, say, Iron Flesh, they wouldn't be able to charge. If you charge into a Blizzard, you lose 2 SPD and therefore 2 inches off your movement, but you keep going because Blizzard doesn't tell you to stop. If you have enough movement to completely exit the Blizzard, you no longer suffer -2 SPD, so you get the 2 lost inches of movement back.

Bellringer. (See Wroughthammer Rockram) You cannot start a charge inside Bellringer because it has a special rule saying so. If you charge into the Bellringer effect, your movement is halved, but you keep moving because Bellringer doesn't tell you to stop.

Rough Terrain. If my Juggernaut is in Rough Terrain and attempts to charge, it automatically fails the charge. If my Juggernaut charges into Rough Terrain, it stops as soon as it touches said terrain because the rules for Rough Terrain say so. If my IFP Kapitan gives the Furious Charge order, my IFP can charge through terrain because it says so. It doesn't say I ignore movement penalties though, so their movement is halved until they completely exit the Rough Terrain. My Kodiak says nuts to this and moves and charges through Rough Terrain freely due to All Terrain.

Widowmakers will help against the Bane horde, so would Freezing them with Sorscha. You may want Widowmakers just for the AD in some of the scenarios. I think the Kodiak is one of the best Khador jacks. I think the Behemoth is too many points to take at 500. I'm not a fan of the Destroyer - take mortars and a heavy with two melee attacks instead.

Personally, for a tourney, I would hate to see:

Irusk (Inhospitable Ground could help you win some scenarios)
Vlad or Sorscha
Kodiak
Berzerker
Widowmakers
Mortar
Drakhun

Depending on caster, that is up to 427 points. Sprinkle in either the IFP or A+H and Eiryss. Either could work. A+H and Eiryss are probably more powerful.