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Here's one.

Say you have an idea. Say you have an idea for a whole new armylist in the Warhammer Universe. You have the idea for fluff/ background, characters, miniatures, rules, etc etc.

You publish it on the Internet, or in a fan magazine. This would be similiar to Science Fiction Fandom. I know Lois McMaster Bujold, for example (she publishes with Baen books) doesn't read FanFic because she can be liable for stealing ideas.

But if you come up with a cool idea can you patent it? And if Gee-dub (or another company) wants to use it they have to pay you for it.

Now on the other hand what happens if say an independant sculptor starts selling knock-off GW products. Something Bad, one would presume. Similiarly if say Baen or DoubleDay started writing and publishing books using GW settings, characters and plots that would be Something Bad.

BUT if I wrote my own story on my computer, that would be OK. And if I sculpted my own stuff that would be OK. And if I wanted to give away either, that would be OK. I think. And selling it second-hand would be OK too. I think.

But here's the last question. What happens if I commission someone to make a bunch of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (paying them or otherwise bartering with them) and then I play the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles miniatures game. I guess I need to find someone living in Mexico.

I am just curious if there are any informed opinions. I may actually do an article on this soonish. I will add Abandonware, too. Call it a FAQ.

So I am curious if anyone has links etc to get me going or otherwise informed advice. This started I just wanted to see what people would say.

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So for example (the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles thing was what I was really after, although that's not really it) say if GW steals H.B.M.C. and company's idea for teleporting Grey Knight Elite Squads, can he sue them for it. Or can he only do it if he files a patent.

Are you asking for advice about your idea of a new codex or about the topic of writing an article on IP?

It's a big topic and even to give an overview and some pointers for further research would take a page of A4.

Some basic points:

Copyright and Patents are different. Copyright applies to all artworks (writing, painting and so on) while Patents only apply to physical inventions (except in the USA.)

Secondly, copyright is automatic while patents are granted by a government agency which considers whether the invention is worthy of a patent.

There is tons of good info on these matters available free from the US and UK government websites of the agencies that deal with them. Legal judgements in IP cases are a key source for how the laws are interpreted in the courts.

Your codex idea cannot be patented because ideas can't be patented.

It can't be copyrighted by you, because it is a derivative work based on the work already copyrighted by GW.

It may be possible to work around this by creating entirely new names and formats for everything, though this will increasingly limit the usefulness of the codex with the core rules.

This is where legal judgements offer some guide as to how much you have to change in order to create a new work. If the case got to court, the judge would base his decision on which elements of your work were crucial to the whole and how derivative they are of the GW work.

Kilkrazy is right and I really think you should not write an article on copyright when the whole thing is confusing you completely. That article would help nobody (except to slowly educate you on the topic).

BUT if I wrote my own story on my computer, that would be OK. And if I sculpted my own stuff that would be OK. And if I wanted to give away either, that would be OK. I think. And selling it second-hand would be OK too. I think.

If your "own story" is not related to Games Workshop in any way (or any other work) then you may publish it, license it, and sell it because then you have the copyright. But if it is related to Games Workshop material then you theoretically have no right or license to do anything with it (except for anything that falls under fair use rights (which again differ from country to country)). This mean that even fan work is theoretically forbidden (as you would be publishing derivative work without a license) but practically most companies do not hunt down fans for non-commercial work (fan art, conversions,...) for publicity (big bad bully company) as well as financial reasons. They could force you to cease and desist with your non licensed work but that would not really be cost effective (and their lawyers have better things to do).

The TMNT game: Getting unique miniature sculpted could fall under artistic expression in some cases and be legal (depends on your country). So you having these miniatures and playing a game you invented with them could be legal. If you then were to start posting battle reports online and distributing the rules and miniatures the IP owners could find it and either grant you an license for free, a fee, and/or royalties and probably get some positive brand recognition in some niche subcultures (TMNT miniature gamers, toy collectors?) if they want. Or they could work to stop you from distributing that game as they could have sold and exclusive license to someone else and thus be in no position to grant you the license (and being held accountable for not stopping you if they know of your work).

But of course they no not need a reason to (not) stop you from doing this to their IP. In contrast to this stand trademarks where you can lose your trademark if you do not defend it (implying that it is not an unique identifier for you products). This being the reason why companies like Adobe and Google do not like it when their names and products get used as verbs.

That's at least how I understand it to work (to some degree) as I am not a (IP) lawyer (just very curious about the whole topic and especially the more surreal things it creates) and the whole topic can be deconstructed in too many way and points of view.

Try googling (I mean a Google searching ) or look on Wikipedia for stuff like IP rights, copyright, license, derivative work, patent, trademark, copyleft, creative commons, public domain. And Kilkrazy already mentioned it, try relevant government agencies (copyright.gov for the US copyright office).

Abandonware is just a subcultural convention regarding old software. Legally it falls under copyright infringement although companies accept it for the most part as it does not tend to damage buying habits for software (often old OOP games). That is something that other industries (film, music) do not agree with.

I hope this post make some sense.

Mario wrote:That article would help nobody (except to slowly educate you on the topic).

Ah but that would be the point . I appreciate the input/ lectures.

The three topics that interest me thus far are.

1) Casting or sculpting existing GW miniatures.
2) Lois McMaster Bujold avoiding FanFic.
3) Gaming companies cracking down on Abandonware because if you don't protect your copyright you can lose it, although I think someone on this site corrected me on that one already. Maybe. I don't remember stuff too good sometimes.

I guess I better get at it ....

This is a FAQ for Science Fiction and gaming. I don't care about music and movies, really. Or rather, I do. But not necessarly legal distribution of a movie but rather what you can do with the world. Not to reiterate what you guys may have said but: So say can I sit at home and write a Pirates of the Caribbean video game? One would think that would be Something Bad. What if I write a novel based on Secret of Monkey Island? Can I get it published? What if I do the same thing but change all the names around. Something Bad.

>>So say can I sit at home and write a Pirates of the Caribbean video game?

Yes, but you would need permission from Disney to publish it

>>What if I write a novel based on Secret of Monkey Island?

Yes, but you would need permission from LucasArts to publish it.

You can do more or less any copyright violating you want in the privacy of your home, because the IP owner can't find out about it. Most people would agree that ripping a CD to your iPod is fine (technically it's a violation) as long as you don't give away or sell copies of the ripped tracks. I'm using music as an example because it is very widely known.

What you can do is make a game or write a novel about pirates that doesn't draw upon already copyrighted sources (I mean, you can use historical figures and situations because they are out of copyright.) If your work is good, hopefully it will succeed on its merits.

If your work is based on Disney's or LucasArts's, part of the reason for its success would be those companies' work in establishing the characters and backgrounds. So they deserve not just credit but also money.

The point about Googling is different to copyright because it is to do with trademarks. We don't need to get into that aspect of IP law.

To address your three specific points...

>>1) Casting or sculpting existing GW miniatures.
This is a violation of copyright unless you accept the argument offered by TMP site member Judas Iscariot that under US case law home copying of copyrighted sculptures is not a violation because it does not affect the market value of the original sculptures. I must point out that Judas Iscariot's view on the matter is highly controversial and may well be based on a misunderstanding of copyright law.

2) Lois McMaster Bujold avoiding FanFic.
I've never heard of this so I can't make a comment.

3) Gaming companies cracking down on Abandonware because if you don't protect your copyright you can lose it, although I think someone on this site corrected me on that one already. Maybe. I don't remember stuff too good sometimes.

What can happen is if you ignore copyright violations for long enough, then try to clamp down, the judge may decide that your previous lack of action is tantamount to giving permission for the copyright violation.

Kilkrazy wrote:2) Lois McMaster Bujold avoiding FanFic.
I've never heard of this so I can't make a comment.

I am personally more serious than this, but this is where I got it from. I think she has a strong community of "WoW girls" in the States.

http://www.dendarii.co.uk/FanFic/