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It seems to me that, no matter what you are doing with your Space Marine army, the following are useful.

6 Tac squads, ten men in each, with razorbacks.
A Librariuan with the Veil and his psychic hood. I'm undecided about what's best for the second power, probably the 5th invul in case you can't fit 30 guys in your terrain.
A Siege Dreadnaught in a drop pod, with its storm bolter traded for a heavy flamer (Here's an armor 13 guy in your face on turn one, many armies will have trouble with this, particularly as he punks defilers/grinders)

That's about 1500 points, all of it pretty good. Anybody want to shove things off this list, or add to it?

6 Tacs seems a bit much < 1800 pts

I would go drop a Tac/Razorback and add another Ironclad in a pod.

I would say add Sternguard...but I think that's something other than backbone.

I'd take something other than the Dreadnought. He's a really crunchy 185 points that'll probably get popped by a melta the turn he comes in. I think the Siege Dread is going to be a lot better than his less armored brethren were in 4th ed, but you should still probably take 3 if you're going to run dreads. Maybe 4 bikes and an attack bike with a melta instead, providing tough suppression fire and decent anti-vehicle with enough speed to keep up with the razorbacks?

sourclams wrote:I'd take something other than the Dreadnought. He's a really crunchy 185 points that'll probably get popped by a melta the turn he comes in. I think the Siege Dread is going to be a lot better than his less armored brethren were in 4th ed, but you should still probably take 3 if you're going to run dreads. Maybe 4 bikes and an attack bike with a melta instead, providing tough suppression fire and decent anti-vehicle with enough speed to keep up with the razorbacks?

He's only 145 w/ upgrade...unless you are talking about the pod as well? Perhaps it's just my area..but usually you can find a non-melta area to drop...or at least 12+ inches away.

I'm also a big believer in Deathwind launchers. At first I thought they were too pricey...but after playing with them, I think they are worth it (Provided you have starting armour on the board).

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I'd take something other than the Dreadnought. He's a really crunchy 185 points that'll probably get popped by a melta the turn he comes in. I

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I dunno, I drop a lot of soul grinders in folk's grills, and it's pretty rare for him to get immediately melta'd. What's the odds on a melta vs 13 anyway...

If within 6".

2/3 to hit, 29/36 to pen, 1/2 pen gets it done? So, effectively they need a pair of melta guns, or 3 preferably to drop the big guy. Lots of armies don't have that sort of thing near every vulnerable unit. Orks, for example, are going to get flamed and then have to either shoot lootas or charge in and wait for the claw to work.

6 tact squads is a big fail.

Stelek wrote:6 tact squads is a big fail.

Why?

Tactical squads require ten men to get any weapons.

They allow you to take razorback spam, but if you are running 6 full tactical squads...that's 1500 points worth of useless anti-infantry firepower that can't move and fire reliably.

Can't win in close combat.

In short, tactical squads are for taking objectives when the rest of your army has cleared the way for them to do so.

Where's the rest of the army? 250-500 points? Burn 100 of that on a gimp commander. Now you can afford a dread?

Wow, scary.

I'm going with Stelek on this one. The one dreadnought is going to take out some guys, and then die, it's like a 1/2 @$$ed drop assault that will leave your opponent wondering if there's more coming. Which there won't be because the rest of your army is slogging across the battle field giving your opponent lots of time to figure out what he's going to do with 60 guys who are trying(and failing) to make up for what they lost in their induction process by being avidly religious and waving large guns around and shouting stuff (I have nothing against avidly religious people, until they start killing people who don't agree with them)

My biggest problem is the overbearing taste of vanilla that the backbone this space marine army has. Its just too much. IMHO tactical squads are better suited to holding objectives but for that, you would do just as well with 3 or 4 squads as you would with 6. Better in fact, as the extra 300 points (at least, and I mean at LEAST ) could/would/should be spent on units that are better suited to the actual taking of objectives.

I do agree with the razor back idea though. If for no other reason than portable cover, and an extra set of heavy bolters, and 2 extra bolter shots

If we are talking just holding an objective... take a scout unit with sniper rifles and camo cloaks and a heavy bolter. Plant them in 4+ cover and I have a 3+ invulnerable. All that for what 180 points. Good fire base and you have work to assault it or burn a lot of long range fire to get rid of it. Give them super scout sergeant for 50 points and we have highly accurate scouts sitting on the objective.

Back that up with a devastator unit and you have a good firebase for your army.

You probably have 400-500 dedicated to stationary control and 1200-1300 points to build a viable attack force around.