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I have the models but every time I make up a list I end up dropping the deff koptas for something else like Killa Kans or additional powerklaws on nobs. What type of 1750 pt. list could effectively use the koptas without regret?

I have a couple of the models and I am thinking of using them in the same role that I now use Snikrott versus artillery based armies. Just have them outflank and then assault the whirlwind/basilisk. 2-3 deffkoptas is cheaper than Snikrot and his kommandos and MAY be just as effective for outflanking certain opponents.

i find 3 with a buzzsaw works well.
if against light armoured armies i take a single big bomb too.

just fly them about taking out armour or anything thats getting too close.
the big bomb may be expensive, but against armies like IG it earns its points back pretty quickly.

there are 2 ways you can run the deffkopters. One way with the twinlinked rokkits... and the other as Big shootas.

5 deffkopters with big shootas and 2 buzzsaws will be good outflanking units vs things like Lootas/Firewarriors/anything with light armor and long range.

5 deffkopters with rokkits are expensive! BUT they can take down the soft Armor of tanks and possibly take down some MEQs. You gotta realize that with BS 2 you have a 51% chance to hit with the TL rokkits. Armor 10-12 should be doable... but anything higher is harder to take down :(.

This is an ardboyz list I would run with Deff Kopters

Ghazgull 225
14 Lootas 210
15 Lootas 225
10 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 140
12 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 152
12 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 152
12 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 152
12 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 152
12 Boyz in a trukk(nob+klaw+ram+pole) 152
5 deffkopters with rokkits 225
5 deffkopters with rokkits 225
5 deffkopters with rokkits 225
snikrots unit with 2 burnas 265

I find that they are very good at anti-tank with TL rokkit launchas. I use them to pick off transports and dreads to great effect.

My friend loves those guys and is going to run 15 of them at least.
So I have some experience facing them.

They seem to work better when they are in a few bigger groups than a bunch of little ones.
Rokkits are the way to go almost every time. Twin linked helps soo much with orky shooting and I hate to think how many marines I have lost to them.

They also work well speeding behind your opponents main force to kill off his shooty stuff and the rear armor of his tanks.

Fun unit

Easy to kill, lots of points, small units even at max, no option for bosspole, str 6 (7 on charge) overpriced PK... No, I don't like 'em, no sirree.

Your milage, of course, may vary.

Deffkoptas are the best ranged anti-tank unit for orks.

The Shokkmek is too busy fighting infantry in most games, lootas dont have the heavy punch, kans dont have the range. Kannon are good but immobile and easy to defeat.

The mobility of the kopta means that it can meke good use of the range of a rokkit. Twin linked BS2 is the best ork shooting, slightly better than a grots BS3.
To get one hit you need two koptas, to get a kill against an ordinary tank you need two hits. This means four koptas. This costs 180pts. I would prefer to run the koptas in pairs, but a skwadron of four is good enough if you have other fast attack.

While unit size is small you have an evens chance of staying in the fight and cannot be dropped below 50% without reducing the unit to a single kopta.

Of course if you are starting the three Black Reach koptas make three fast attack choices. As there are always good things to buy, boyz, kans lootas and various HQ choices it is easy to strip your FA down to three single koptas and get good use of them. Kill poimnts will hurt but is offset by the large blocks you will undoubtably use for kans, boyz and lootas. Besides single koptas can be hidden until needed, dash forward bust a tank or two and die.
If the tank they bust is the Whirlwind or Basilisk tearing apart your boyz you will be glad you had them.

They are not so easy to kill as ordinary ork, but yes, they are expensive.

For this you have: Fast and scouting unit, with one of best rokkitz shooting in orks army.

They require sometimes to good planing where to move them but when they blow tank hitting from side or rear this is so funny, and face of your opponent is even more fun

Make sure to vary the weapon options, so you can use multi-wound allocation to keep them alive longer. Squads of 3-5 can be surprisingly durable this way.

Orlanth wrote:Deffkoptas are the best ranged anti-tank unit for orks.

The Shokkmek is too busy fighting infantry in most games, lootas dont have the heavy punch, kans dont have the range. Kannon are good but immobile and easy to defeat.

The mobility of the kopta means that it can meke good use of the range of a rokkit. Twin linked BS2 is the best ork shooting, slightly better than a grots BS3.
To get one hit you need two koptas, to get a kill against an ordinary tank you need two hits. This means four koptas. This costs 180pts. I would prefer to run the koptas in pairs, but a skwadron of four is good enough if you have other fast attack.

While unit size is small you have an evens chance of staying in the fight and cannot be dropped below 50% without reducing the unit to a single kopta.

Of course if you are starting the three Black Reach koptas make three fast attack choices. As there are always good things to buy, boyz, kans lootas and various HQ choices it is easy to strip your FA down to three single koptas and get good use of them. Kill poimnts will hurt but is offset by the large blocks you will undoubtably use for kans, boyz and lootas. Besides single koptas can be hidden until needed, dash forward bust a tank or two and die.
If the tank they bust is the Whirlwind or Basilisk tearing apart your boyz you will be glad you had them.

Agreed. All except for the part about lootas, who will kill vehicles through sheer volume of firepower.
I personally have used deffkoptas to amazing effect by outflanking them, and they have made up for their points everytime i have used them.
As to the effective squad size i would take two, main reason being the squad can always regroup when reduced to one guy whereas a unit of three cannot.

Lootas cannot hurt Av14, rokkits have a chance. Not as good as swe would like, but if you are being pied to death by a Russ you just need to roll the hard six.

Mannahnin wrote:Make sure to vary the weapon options, so you can use multi-wound allocation to keep them alive longer. Squads of 3-5 can be surprisingly durable this way.

Very sound advise. I've not used the Deffkoptas, but I utelize this strategy with my Nob Bikers and it can be very problematic for my opponents.

I have only been using one unit so far, 3 deffkoptas with rokkits. Their shooting is pretty darn good and I like the feel of outflanking with them. Their problem so far is getting stuck in a combat and not being able to finish off the opponents. I momentarily forgot about their hit-and-run and didn't use it.

I noticed no one mentioned these angles:

Using hit-and-run to escape HtH on their turn in order to re-shoot and re-assault the unit

According to FAQ they can now turbo in their scout and outflank move, correct?

A cheap unit of 2-3 Koptas with big shootas and no upgrades to cause mischief/contest objectives. Annoyance units are great for Ork armies that can present horde threats

- Blackbone

I took out two Hammerheads last night with them out flanking. Two units of two with rokkits. I mainly use mine to take out enemy armor or harass a weak unit like Eldar scouts who need 6's to wound me in assault.

Blackbone wrote:I have only been using one unit so far, 3 deffkoptas with rokkits. Their shooting is pretty darn good and I like the feel of outflanking with them. Their problem so far is getting stuck in a combat and not being able to finish off the opponents. I momentarily forgot about their hit-and-run and didn't use it.

I noticed no one mentioned these angles:

Using hit-and-run to escape HtH on their turn in order to re-shoot and re-assault the unit

According to FAQ they can now turbo in their scout and outflank move, correct?

A cheap unit of 2-3 Koptas with big shootas and no upgrades to cause mischief/contest objectives. Annoyance units are great for Ork armies that can present horde threats

- Blackbone


Don't worry so much about forgetting Hit and Run. The change now forcing an initiative test kind of puts the ability in the 'useless' category.

Hit and Run is only of use if you take a buzsaw. As this is just another klaw nob and you can take them elsewhere it is of limited value. Also on other fast moving units like warbikes and stormboyz, it isnt worth that much.
Also a buzzsaw kopta is not a nob, it gets no extra attack.

Koptas are set up so you can make a close combat unit out of them, but it is a bad idea.

The mobility is for outflanking tanks and hitting side armour, bye bye Leman Russ. Also for bypassing hills and wasting Basilisks/Whirlwinds hiding behind.

After that is is a reaonable amount of nuisance value Ap3. On a cost per MEq kill they are not good, but isd as good enough secondary role that you wont regret including them.

I disagree with Mannahnin over varying weapons options. A good idea for nob mobs, but it dpesnt work with koptas. You could give a unit bigbomms I suppose, but that would channel your movement, a buzzsaw is overrated. The only time you should be assaulting is to lock Fire Warrior in combat and stop them shooting. You dont need upgrades for that. Big shootas, no thankyou anti-horde shots are everywhere, and the kustome mega blasta is a liability. Most of these options also cost you, frankly you are better off spending the points elsewere, or even on an extra kopta and sucking up the hits.

Whatever you do, koptas have a low life expectancy due to their role.

last night I played my friend with the black reach box set and I added 3 deffkoptas to the set to even out the points....

the deffkoptas alone killed a majority of his space marines because of the AP 3 (around a 46% kill rate per shot)... and it allowed me the win when I destroyed his multi-melta (he could not win the last 2 kp for my lone kopta with a bolt gun, I found out the hard way that they are not meant to assault enemy units, so the buzzsaw is right out as a choice )

the turbo boost on the scout move really helped me circumnavigate the terrain his marines were hiding behind and eventually hit his dreadnaught from the rear...

Hit and run was useful when he assaulted my squad of koptas, (they were in squads of 2)... but if I failed the Hit and Run then they would usually get cut down...

In the future I plan to get aroud 6-9 deffkoptas with the rokkit launchas for my 750pt army when I play my friend again...

I playtested 2 squads of 2 with TL rokkits over the cource of 12 games. ended up switching them out

why? well they're effective enough.. sometimes. at defeating enemy tanks and such.

but the reality is, with the exception of land raiders (which deffkoptas rarely damage anyway) you can buy 12 lootas for the cost of 4 deffkoptas. they are more than capable of reaching out and shredding skimmers and other light tanks with ease. its weight of dice and 5's to glance that do these tanks in.

even something like a vindicator. if I get even a medium barrage, thats usually 2-3 or more glancing hits, which at the very least will stop it from shooting, or strip its demolisher cannon off. this is plenty sufficient.

so in short.. I think deffkoptas are decent.. but definately suboptimal for their points

NaZ

I like deffkoptas, and am running 12 of them at 2000 points.

Yes, deffkoptas are sub optimal to Lootas for the points, when it comes to ranged anti-tank. but Deffkoptas can also do things that Loota's can't, like turboboost.

outflank them. Take squads of 2 with rokkits or a solo one with a rokkit and buzzsaw.

Smaller squads are better thn bigger ones with deffkoptas