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Hello all,

Haven't played warmachine in a while, but played yesterday and must say that I still like the game. I played yesterday with Khador against Cygnar. Me and my opponent made a lot of stupid misstakes, but I made the worst and lost in the end :( never ever ever expose the warlock!!!...

Now I have a small cryx force (the battlebox with Denegra) and would like to add at least 1 unit of troops, possibly more if points permit. I guess we play at approx 400 points, as the Khador force consists of sorcha with a juggernaut and a destroyer and a unit of man'o'wars (2 + captain). The Cygnar force consists of Coleman striker with a charger, lancer and Ironclad, and a unit of swordknights (5 + captain).

What is the best thing to add given these opponents?? Should I add mechanithralls (5 + captain) and a pistolwraith? should I add bilethralls?? what exactly do these units add??

Thankx for every advice given...

Bane knights are really strong overall and punish your enemy for killing them, which is a big bonus. They can reliably handle anything big and struggle a little to hit the more dodgy targets (Deneghra can help here with crippling grasp).

Bile thralls are an excellent addition also, they are dirt cheap and will really punish anyone who ignores them. If they get in range they will completely annihilate swaths of infantry.

Mechanithralls are cheap meat for the grinder. They're really good for clogging up large areas of the board and forcing to be dealt with.

These are really the basics. Vs. the opponents you've listed, bane knights will probably be the most effective place to start and will get your opponents hating Cryx early which is a bonus.

First thing I'd add is a skarlock. This model adds so much utility that it is crazy.

This'll give you a good range of core models to extend your battlebox to 400 points. Bold indicates new models.

Warwitch Deneghra
Slayer
Deathripper
Deathripper
Defiler
Skarlock
Pistol Wraith
6 Bile Thralls inc. lieutenant

397/400 Subs: None.

Later on you could field this:

Warwitch Deneghra
Cankerworm
Deathripper
Deathripper
Helldiver
Skarlock
Pistol Wraith
6 Bile Thralls inc. lieutenant
6 Mechanithralls inc. lieutenant

400/400 Subs: Slayer, Defiler.

This will be quite an intimidating list to fight at 400 points with 19 models and 4 warjacks.

To the original poster: If you go with George's suggestions (which are good ones) - you'll have a huge advantage over your opponents as you will have:

1. More points than them (around 5-10% advantage).
2. The Cryx box is arguably the strongest of the 4 initial starters, as it is much faster than the others and contains no "bad" models. George's suggested additions (which I agree with 100%) will make it hard for your friends to compete on even footing, especially if they stick to the contents of the battlebox.

In order to keep things fair - the first thing I recommend you suggest to them, is to bring their lists up to 400.

For Cygnar, to flesh out to 400 from the box-set I have the following suggestions:

1. Add 1 junior warcaster to his force.

394/400

A nice "upgraded" counterpoint to George's "advanced list" for Cygnar would be:

Stryker
Ironclad
Lancer
6x Sword Knights
6x Long Gunners
1x Stormsmith
1x Junior Warcaster
400/400


For Khador player I have the following suggestions:

1. Add 1 kovnik to marshal one of the jacks and free up focus on Sorcha. The Destroyer is a good jack to marshal, as the Juggernaut loses its power attacks when you marshal it.

403/400 - I know it is over points, but the man-o-wars are a terrible choice at small points values - and have little synergy with Sorscha so IMO, it won't hurt either you or the Cygnar player much.

Ideally, with Khador, it is better to run only 1 jack (usually the destroyer) with a low focus caster like Sorsha and to fill the rest of the points with infantry. Ironfangs and Widowmakers come highly recommended. It is pricier, but more flexible.

A suggested "advanced" list.

Sorscha
Destroyer
Manhunter
Ironfangs x6 w/ Unit Attachment
Widowmakers
Winterguard Mortar

400/400

(Of course, if your opponents are Warmachine veterans, this is all moot, and all power to you to go with the strongest list possible!) Happy gaming!

he guys,

Thanks for the tips. I am looking at beginnerslists. My opponent also is not a veteran, but he wil probably flesh out his lists too this saturday (we are going to crysis in belgium and we expect to blow a few euro's there...)

If I add the skarlock, pistolier and thralls he will probably also add something, or I will just drop the pistolier or something... otherwise he could add a solo or something to his forces (Bokur seems nice for his points... )

I think I will add the figs off the first list (skarlock and bilethralls) and just see where I strand.. I am going to play a few games then and then maybe expand again, just to have some extra's. My opponent also has some other warcasters already, but does not work with them often. They are a bit to good in his mind... (might need to convince him to use those )

thanks for the tips and any more would be appreciated. I would especcially like to know more about the mechanitrhralls and if they are worth it, and also if skarre is any good in the minimal points games, as she is more a combat cryx caster opposed to fragile denegra (although she can take care of small things herself I suspect )

Restarting your Cryx. Hmm.....

Restock the furnace with necrotyte, make sure the boiler is trim and you have a good head of steam. Then ease forward slowly on the throttle while relasing the choke.
its an art, but you will get used to it in time.

In my opinion: Mechthralls are always worth it if you can find the points - which is easy, since they're dirt cheap! They have the option of 2 attacks, which helps negate their middling MAT. Option of combostrike vs hard (low def) targets. They move at a respectable SPD6. If you can raise their MAT, or lower your opponent's DEF, they become champs.

If you are looking for a more "combat" caster, look no further than Iron Lich Asphyxious. P+S14 on his spear with sustained attack means in a straight up fight, he wrecks house.

Skarre can dish out the punishment, but she's fairly frail once you get past her high DEF. Skarre is very strong, and can really dish it out in melee, but less well rounded than Deneghra. One of Deneghra's strong abilities is that she has stealth - and her witch barbs let her flee from melee without free strikes.

@ Orlanth, I am afraid I am out of necrotyte. can you send me some? the engine also keeps stalling

mm, to make it a nice wellrounded list I will go with denegra with slayer, 2 X deathripper, defiler, skarlock, pistolwraith and 6 mechanithralls. Should be enough to get at approx 400 and will loose the skarlock or wraith if playing smaller games (will se witch when I know how much we will play...)

thanx for the help...

If you arent looking to pick up a new caster at the moment just remember that Denegra makes all her troops and jacks better with Parasite, Crippling grasp and her feat. Once she debuffs an enemy she becomes a terrifying beatstick that immune to free strikes! Add in a little Bonejack bowling(SLAM) and your prone opponent will be meeting the dragonfather in a minute!

All good advice. Bile thralls, Skarlock, Pistol Wraiths, and Bane Knights are all excellent choices with Denegra. She is still the ultimate assasin Lock and all of these choices have great sysnergy with her. As soon as you can you will want to add in Night Wreches for your arc nodes as they usually are your finishers in assasination runs after a good Scourging followed by a Ghost Walk as needed.