Christians on Left, Right Push Plan to Aid the Poor

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**Frazzled**

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123482468966794861.html
As a nice counterpoint to recent threads

Christians on Left, Right Push Plan to Aid the Poor Article
Comments
more in Politics »By STEPHANIE SIMON
More than a dozen Christian leaders from across the political spectrum -- including members of both the Bush and Obama administrations -- will come together Tuesday to promote a grab bag of proposals designed to help the poor at a time of rising unemployment.

The coalition includes forceful figures on the religious right, such as Chuck Donovan of the Family Research Council, and equally outspoken leaders on the religious left, such as the Rev. Jim Wallis, who leads the ministry Sojourners.

After four months of prayer and debate, the coalition members will unveil their agenda at the National Press Club Tuesday and then turn to lobbying Congress. Their package includes conservative priorities such as extending the child-care tax credit to stay-at-home mothers and liberal goals such as raising the minimum wage. They will call for stronger efforts to promote marriage, more subsidies for AIDS medication, and more federal spending to help teens and ex-convicts find work.

More
The Poverty Forum's Web siteMembers of the coalition, dubbed The Poverty Forum, say they hope the strange-bedfellows nature of the group will command respect -- and serious attention to their proposals -- from both sides of the aisle. "Overcoming poverty must become a nonpartisan commitment and a bipartisan cause," Mr. Wallis said.

The U.S. Census reports that 1 in 8 Americans, more than 37 million, live in poverty. The steady rise in joblessness puts more at risk each month. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal research group, predicts that before the recession eases, as many as 10 million additional Americans might slip under the poverty line, which would mean living on less than $22,050 a year for a family of four.

The Poverty Forum is the latest in a string of religious coalitions formed in an effort to lend moral heft to proposed policies on topics as varied as immigration, torture and global warming.

The coalition came together in the fall after two years of discussions between Mr. Wallis and Michael Gerson, a longtime speechwriter for former President George W. Bush. The men recruited pairings of one liberal and one conservative to study eight issues affecting the poor, such as health care, education and crime.

"This is an opportunity to get attention for some ideas that might not be taken as seriously if they came directly from the Family Research Council" or other advocacy groups easily pigeonholed as conservative or liberal, Mr. Donovan said

**sebster**

That's really cool. I'd heard noises about left and right wing Christian groups making overtures to each other, but I had no idea they had anything so concrete in place.

It's been too long that wedge issues have divided the two and stopped them coming to together on the common ground of social equity. I mean, isn't that what Christianity is all about?

**Frazzled**

Yep. There are strong differences on how that should be done, but thats a primary goal.

**reds8n**

Good for them I suppose, hope it all works out.

Good to see people, regardless of politics rallying together to "beat" something that affects people from across the political spectrum.

To clarify : is this announcement before they spend 4 months, during or at the end of said ?

**malfred**

There are Christians on the left? I thought leftists were all socialist commie terrorist muslim atheists?!

edited to add atheist

**warpcrafter**

It's all just another bible-nazi plot to push their agenda, which should be left back in the middle ages where it belongs.

**Lorek**

Knee-jerk comment: Check.

Offensive to a large group: Check.

Poorly informed: Check.

Mods are going to ignore all attacks on you: Check.

**Greebynog**

warpcrafter wrote:It's all just another bible-nazi plot to push their agenda, which should be left back in the middle ages where it belongs.

Iorek wrote:
Mods are going to ignore all attacks on you: Check.

Warpcrafter you pubeless, nancy, French, bender, Man Utd supporting tart.

I like this immunity.

On topic: Great idea, I hope it does some good for those who really need it.

**Frazzled**

malfred wrote:There are Christians on the left? I thought leftists were all socialist commie terrorist muslim atheists?!

edited to add atheist

Thats true (and you forgot bad at pool), but if you hang out near Soviet Hall (what we used to call the school of social work) there were many a lass who was easy on the eyes...

**ShumaGorath**

That's really cool. I'd heard noises about left and right wing Christian groups making overtures to each other, but I had no idea they had anything so concrete in place.

It's been too long that wedge issues have divided the two and stopped them coming to together on the common ground of social equity. I mean, isn't that what Christianity is all about?

Left wing christian groups differ on some key issues, like putting money towards aids medication and sex education rather than abstinence education. Left wing christian groups tend to attempt to treat social issues by dealing with societal issues. Right wing groups tend to try and control the fundamental causes of the issues in an attempt to prevent them from occurring at all. Both ideas have merit, but the right wing methodology is rarely successful since its ideals don't have much sway outside of itself (abstinence education really doesn't do much outside of christian circles).

**warpcrafter**

Target well-hit captain, scanning for next target!

**Frazzled**

Respectfully, you're wrong there Shuma and tying it to one particular cause celeb. What you've discussed are political issues for the wack job fringes. Its not what being Christian is about.

Its a 'personal issue focus.' I think your essential difference, if any, is that one group tries more to deal with the immediate need, whilst another tries to deal with the underlying cause or change long term. Absent a few issues, both sides end up at the same place.

I see a starving man and give to an organization helping that starving man. That organization will put energy into immediate needs and long term efforts to change the behavior. But at the end of the day they are still feeding that starving man and still attempting to change their condition.

Its only in the fringes that there is a difference. Who do we try to help the most with our limited dollars?

**BloodofOrks**

Good. I know a lot of Christians who view poverty as a much more important issue than the traditional punching bags of abortion and homosexuality. It seems to me that poverty is one of those issues where their is little moral ambiguity so I hope these people can put aside their differences and actually get something done!

**Frazzled**

Exactly.

**ShumaGorath**

Respectfully, you're wrong there Shuma and tying it to one particular cause celeb. What you've discussed are political issues for the wack job fringes. Its not what being Christian is about.

Being christian isn't about organizing into political groups either. But thats what we're talking about. Those groups, and their ideological and methodology differences.

I see a starving man and give to an organization helping that starving man. That organization will put energy into immediate needs and long term efforts to change the behavior. But at the end of the day they are still feeding that starving man and still attempting to change their condition.

Respectfully I think you've got the wrong impression here. At the end of the day they are not the same. Take the aids epidemic in africa for instance (I hit on this because its the easiest example), abstinence education is not working. It has not worked. It will never work. The christian right however attacks it in the old time catholic methodology. By preaching self control, even in the face of a clearly failing method. Another example is the christian rights silence over the violence in Iraq, there have been dissenting opinions, but it has largely been the peace agenda of the christian left that has protested.

Again, one group is pledging its dollars to support the troops, the other is pledging its dollars in protesting the war itself. Both do both of course, but the focus is largely different between the two wings. Both are about easing pain, and following christian ideals, but the focus is different.

Its only in the fringes that there is a difference. Who do we try to help the most with our limited dollars?

When talking about christian right and left we are intrinsically speaking about the fringes. Those divisions are (in my belief) much larger then you seem to think as well.

:edit:

As a caveat, the big issue of poverty is one that is fairly commonly approached. Its not nearly as divisive as the other issues I've mentioned. Its a place where the two wings can really come together.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:

Respectfully, you're wrong there Shuma and tying it to one particular cause celeb. What you've discussed are political issues for the wack job fringes. Its not what being Christian is about.

Being christian isn't about organizing into political groups either. But thats what we're talking about. Those groups, and their ideological and methodology differences.

Thats historically inaccurate. The first church made an issue about infant abandonment and other practices which often put it in conflict with authorities of the day.

More to the point, I don't think thats what we're talking about. We're talking about Christians trying to help others on certain key issues.

**Ahtman**

This is good because I recall in the last thread we found out that ALL Christians were evil bigots that eat kittens. This has really changed a lot of peoples mind about Christianity now that we know it isn't all kitten eating and, uhm, bigot, uh, making.

<_<

Frazzled wrote:The first church made an issue about infant abandonment and other practices which often put it in conflict with authorities of the day.

The first church by your definition being? I've seen several different spins/theories/ideas on this one so to better understand which one you think is the first church it would be helpful to place it in context.

**ShumaGorath**

Thats historically inaccurate. The first church made an issue about infant abandonment and other practices which often put it in conflict with authorities of the day.

I don't believe that christianity is about building churches. I believe its about living a good life as a kind and generous person. That is accomplished with charity (which is what this thread is about). However ideology and methodology counteract eachother in large groups, especially when they become politically active. Its my belief that the organizational tendency of major religions is harmful to their basic tenets.

More to the point, I don't think thats what we're talking about. We're talking about Christians trying to help others on certain key issues.

Well my post was about what christian groups (not christianity) were about. My posts focus and the threads focus differ slightly. Since you were responding to me I just figured we were talking about what I was talking about.

**Frazzled**

Good point Ahtman. I'm meaning first 100 years or so here. I'm sure there are excellent terms for this period, but I'd proffer pre-Constantine.

Wait...whats wrong with kittens? I mean a good shiskabob is just awesome, oh wait...

Edit: Agreed, we may be talking different things Shuma.

**sexiest_hero**

Good, maybe they can build up public trust, do some good,and get rid of the crazy Bible thumping image they have. Maybe We aren't as screwed as I though? Keep the good news rolling!

**reds8n**

malfred wrote:There are Christians on the left? I thought leftists were all socialist commie terrorist muslim atheists?!

Give us a chance matey, we're still busy faking dinosaurs and spreading lies about global warming.

**chaplaingrabthar**

Wow Christians actually coming together to support Christian charity. This is as it should be. And is much closer to Christ's teachings than most mainstream news stories about Christians end up being.

**VermGho5t**

warpcrafter wrote:It's all just another bible-nazi plot to push their agenda, which should be left back in the middle ages where it belongs.

obvious troll is OBVIOUS!

**chaplaingrabthar**

sexiest_hero wrote:Good, maybe they can build up public trust, do some good,and get rid of the crazy Bible thumping image they have. Maybe We aren't as screwed as I though? Keep the good news rolling!

THIS!