Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Check out page 16 of the Mark II book.

I thought long time Dakka fans would appreciate the reference to this age old debate. They don't call it "magic cylinder" but ...

How many people are really going to measure something's height and then try to determine if they could really shoot over the Behemoth if it wasn't too tall? Personally, I'd prefer the 'modified True LOS' - there's true LOS, but bigger bases block LOS.

I like the precisely defined height levels, but I personally never had, or even heard of, an LOS problem in Warmachine before.

I'm not sure why they changed it as needing to measure "game height" as opposed to just using physical height seems more complicated now than it was before.

One key thing though is that now you can definitely NOT use modelling and/or careful pose selection to your advantage. I suppose that could have been a problem in some circles.

dietrich wrote:How many people are really going to measure something's height and then try to determine if they could really shoot over the Behemoth if it wasn't too tall? Personally, I'd prefer the 'modified True LOS' - there's true LOS, but bigger bases block LOS.

Well, if you remember the massive arguments here on Dakka about magic cylinder (i.e. can I shoot between your legs, etc.) it can be a big deal.

I think where this ruling really comes into it's own is when a model is hiding behind a terrain piece and you can "see" a bit sticking out. i.e. a 2" wall always blocks medium and small bases, but not large. A 3" wall blocks anything, etc.

I think it removes a lot of small issues. And if folks really get into an argument, the rules will cover it.

It does also account for banners on jacks, which were a source of contention previously. Maybe this isn't an issue that will really come up in game play. I don't see many people arguing that their infantry are really a hair higher and block LOS or that the Behemoth is really a hair shorter and doesn't block LOS. But, it does open up that possibility. Again, I'd prefer the older modified LOS approach. There's true LOS, but bigger bases do block. But, I see your point Russ, and it's a fair one. PP, which somewhat 'rules lawyerish' at times, at least tries to cover its bases.

dietrich wrote:...tries to cover its bases.

Hehe, cover its bases... you made a funny.

Thank you, I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your wait staff.

I like the rules because you aren't punished for awesome modeling The magic cylinder was always there anyway, it just had arms where jacks were concerned.

Well, some folks out there modify their Warjacks to make them freakishly tall, so the Magic Cylinder is a good way of dealing with that issue.

blue loki wrote:I like the precisely defined height levels, but I personally never had, or even heard of, an LOS problem in Warmachine before.

I'm not sure why they changed it as needing to measure "game height" as opposed to just using physical height seems more complicated now than it was before.

One key thing though is that now you can definitely NOT use modelling and/or careful pose selection to your advantage. I suppose that could have been a problem in some circles.

There was a problem with LOS way back when Prime was first written, but they cleaned it up really well. What the current incarnation of Warmachine and Hordes uses is a different system for determining if a model blocks LOS and whether a piece of terrain blocks LOS. Models block LOS if their base is in the way of the target's base, but when using terrain you can shoot any part of the mini whether or not its base is above that part of the mini.

It seems that where actual gameplay is involved, PP want to make minis into very exact game pieces. Not only are the bases always the same size (and part of the statline of the mini) but the height is also standard and now part of the statline.

I suppose this means you could just label some bases and play the game that way now. I don't know that I'd ever want to do that though.