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So its time for round two!

This time we wanted to really give the Guard a hard time so we decided to minimize the Randomness associated with Demons. Each game I would face the Daemons Chosen half first, and we gave an optional +/-1 to reserve rolls. The Daemons would also get to choose deployment, and go first for each game.

The idea here is that I don’t want to see what happens against a Daemon list crippled by bad luck I want to see what happens against a daemon list when things are going right for it.

I made some changes to the 211th based on lessons learned from the previous games.

211th Cadian Armored Cavalry Regiment / Alpha Company, 1st Battalion(Reinforced)

HQ- Colonel Carlton Ebonstone Regimental Commander 211th Armored Cav
CHQ – 4x Melta, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

HQ- Captain Damian Emerald, Company Commander, Alpha Co. 1st BN of the 211th Armored Cav.
CHQ - – 4x Melta, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Elites – Regimental Primaris Auxiliary Detachment
Psyker Battle Squad, (1 Minder, 8 Psykers), Chimera Hull HB, ML, HS

Elites – Inquisitor Alexander Crucius & Retinue
DH Inquisitor+ 2x Mystics

Troops- 1st Assault Support Squad, Sgt William Grey
Veteran Squad, 3x Melta, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Troops – 2nd Assault Support Squad, Sgt Michael Pike
Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Troops – 3rd Assault Support Squad, Sgt Christopher Scott
Veteran Squad, 3x Melta, Vox, Chimera Hull HF, ML, HS

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold One – call sign “Gambler“
1x Val Kyrie Gunships with Rocket Pods

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold Two – call sign “Gunslinger”
1x Vendetta Gunships

Fast Attack – 828th Ground Support Squadron, Gold Three – call sign “Nightmare”
1x Vendetta Gunships

Heavy Support – B Troop, 13th Armored BN, 211th Armored Cavalry
1x LR Executioner w/Plasma Sponsons, 1x LR Demolisher w/Plasma Sponsons,


And the Army I would face:

HQ – Fate weaver – 333
HQ – Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Iron Hide, Icon of Khorne, Unholy Might
Elites – Blood Crushers x8 Fury, Icon, Instrument – 360
Elites – Blood Crushers x8 Fury, Icon, Instrument - 360
Elites – Blood Crushers x8 Fury, Icon, Instrument - 360
Troops – Plague Bearers x5
Troops – Plague Bearers x5
Troops – Plague Bearers x5
Troops – Plague Bearers x5

The split was Kairos + 2 Crushers or Herald + Crusher + Troops

Game one was Table Quarters Kill Points. Daemons chose to go second (Surprise!)

I did not deploy in a castle as I wanted to get maximum effectiveness from the Plasmolisher Squadron and Mystics. I put the Mystic Val Kyrie as far forward as possible the Plasmolishers close behind. My CCS flanked the Tanks with the Vet Chims taking up the rear. My vendettas set up at opposite corners of my little square in order to make room for the rest of the army.

On my Turn I moved toward the center of the board with the Val Kyrie, moved the Chims up so that the CCS were screening the tanks, with the Melta vets on each side and the plasma vet in between the tanks. The PBS squad moved up to the right of the CCS Chims. My Vendettas turbo boosted to hold the center of the top left and bottom right quarters, leaving only the top right quarter unoccupied.

The daemons chose tried to deploy clear of the mystics but between the Val Kyrie hull and a couple decent rolls I got shots on all three squads. I used the Plasmolisher squadron in each case. I was out of range for the demolisher cannon for one of the blood crushers, and got 2 wounds through there. The second crusher squadron fell in Demolisher range, and suffered 4 wounds even with Kairos re rolls. Kairos himself did not, and saved all 5 wounds easily.

The daemons then spread out via a run move, and Kairos failed to drop one of the vendettas managing only to shake it.

My turn two started off poorly, with a failed perils of the warp test and 3 dead PBS. So looked like I was going to have to do things the hard way. I decided not to concentrate on Kairos, as the CCS was well out of crusher charge range for next turn I just moved to get the plasma vets into position within range to hit the crushers next turn. I fired the entire army into the closer crusher squad, and even with re rolls managed to inflict another 8 wounds, finishing off 4, and leaving the remaining 4 wounded.

On his turn two he brought in the Herald, the third crusher squad and one plague bearer squad. He tried to get the PB’s in out of LOS but they scattered very badly and right into Plasmolisher range. 25 out of 40 possible hits!!!! I rolled crazy good for scatter, and annihilated them re rolls or no. (Felt that didn’t ya!!!)

The crushers with the herald were out of demolisher range and suffered only 2 wounds.

The two first turn crushers moved as fast as possible, into my lines, but they were out of charge range. My opponent here decided that it was a mistake to try and drop out of demolisher range even with Kairos to protect the attack. Kairos blew a rocket pod off of the Val Kyrie but otherwise was held by his need to stay close to the crushers.

On my Turn 3 almost threw my dice in the toilet when the PBS failed a second perils in a row, I lost two more of them. Things were getting a little hairy here. I had already moved to maximize firepower with my vets and CCS to ensure a quick Karios Death so I could twin link them. I had moved one CCS and the Plasma Vets towards the closest – and smallest of the crusher squads, they deployed from the Chims using an inverted v pointed at the crushers and Kairos behind, now with Kairos invulnerable I shifted target priority back to the crushers.

The remaining CCS, Melta Vets and PBS moved towards my board edge ensuring they would be out of charge range next turn and the Tanks moved back 6” as well. The Mystic Valk moved to stay out of crusher charge range, and the two Vendettas moved a bit to keep clear lines of fire. I started out with the vets and CCS on the small crusher squad and killed 2 of them. The Vendettas finished off the remaining two and Captain Emerald breathed a sigh of relief.

The Plasmolisher squadron wacked the other crushers for a solid 5 wounds killing 2, leaving 3 wounded. All of the chimeras and the Val Kyrie together got 2 more wounds through killing one more since he had already applied one wound to each of his allocatables.
As the daemon turn 3 began he was finally able to bring his troops in out of Mystic range due to the Valk having to move out of crusher charge range. All three remaining PB came in on the bottom right corner with plenty of terrain for cover.

The wounded Crusher Squad double charged the two chimeras as the could not quite reach the guardsmen, but he knew he needed to get some kills in so Kairos himself joined the fray and between shooting and assault he slaughtered both the vets and the CCS while the Crushers blew up both Chims. (No wounds to either crusher or Kairos) The Heralds’ squad moved up, and got a good run putting him almost even with the first squad.

My turn 4 was anti crucial as even though the PBS succeeded it was only with 3 living Psykers so it was no where near the sure thing it would have been earlier. Learning from my earlier mistake I did not get out of the Chims this turn, and moved the ccs and two Melta vets up while moving the Russ’s back another 6. I knew I had a problem as Kairos was now in charge range of the tanks next turn so it was do or die there.

I finally got a little luck as it only took two vendettas to put a wound on Kairos and he did fail his leadership to disappear into the warp, and not a moment two frakking soon!!!

My Vets and CCS then finished off the wounded crushers with the help of their chimeras and the tanks put a very severe hurting on the Heralds group killing 3 and leaving two wounded.

On his turn he did mult-icharge the vets Chims, popped two, no explosions, the plague bearers were well out of the fight and could not contribute.

As my turn 5 began it had become a daemon hunt. The remaining Melta vet chim and the PBS moved towards the plague bearers as did all of Gold Squadron’s Valkdettas. The dismounted vets and CCS took up a Custer’s last stand formation with the CCS in the center and the vets surrounding them to accept a charge if necessary. They killed another 1 leaving 3 wounded and one wound on the herald. I was reluctant to fire the tanks at them as they were very close to my troops, but there was nothing else they could hit. I did vaporize two veterans in the ensuing devastation, but the herald and his crushers fell as well. My valks, chimeras and vendettas managed to finish off one of the three remaining PB squads, just barely (thanks to the Vendettas long range AP2)

We rolled and the game continued to turn 6, there was nothing for him to do but try to run and hide but the elite pilots of the 828th Ground Attack squadron hunted them down managing to finish of one more squad with the help of the pursuing chimeras. The game ended with 5 plague bearers cowering behind a hill in the far corner of the board.

Final Score was very close, IG 7, Daemons 6 ( Another Reason I think KP is frakking slowed but what ya gonna do) It would not have been so close had I not made the mistake of thinking I might go for Kairos with the CCS and Vets and dismounting with them. I could not know I would fail the Perils a second time but still, I should have stayed put as KP is a key weakness of most mech lists.

Overall everything performed even better than expected given my terrible PBS rolls. I can see that having a second PBS could be very good in this matchup or against Nob Bikers, but overall I think its overkill especially given the fact that I expect to see a lot more mech.

We played 4 more games two more KP and then two objective games. I split the two KP games, mainly due to the excellent KP denial of the Kairos list. In both games He ended the game with nothing but one or two PB squads running for their lives. In the Second Game Kairos fell to the PBS on turn two and without that protection the remaining daemons fell quickly to the Vendettas and Tanks allowing me to just play keep away while hunting Plague bearers with my Vendettas. That game ended 6-2.

The Third game, Kairos did not die until Turn 3, he also took out one of my Valkyries and thus, I just could not hunt down those damn plague bearers fast enough before the game ended on turn 5. I lost 5-6

The objective missions were A massacre both times 3-0 and 3-1. If they had been 2 objective missions they would both have been 2-0. The objective missions allow me to sacrifice the Chims with abandon and play a

Im still very happy with the list although Im thinking about trying to find a way to get more scoring units in. Possible swaping out the second melta vet squad and all the Stubbas and replacing it all with an infantry platoon with flamer PCS in a flamer Chim. I can then throw the infantry squads in the Vendettas with a flamer each for late game objective grabs. If I had had that both objective games would have been 5-0.

I could really have used them in the games against Mech Lash, We played three games and I will post the details later this week as I have time. Guard did well, but it was interesting that neither his lash nor my PBS was a factor in any of the games. .

Thanks for the batrep. Good job on the wins, and thanks for keeping the environment pretty luck immune. Remember that dice rolls are a part of the demon army, and as I have witnessed, sometimes the luck that the demon player ends up lamenting turns around and does something powerful for them. Sometimes I've seen demon players not get their preferred wave, but manage to do some decent softening of the opponent, and then get their heavy hitters in good clumps with great scatters, and take over. There is usually swingyness going both ways each game.

That fatecrusher list needs a lot of adjustments to compete with any heavily mechanized lists. One rule of thumb I have adopted is that if you are planning to charge tanks as your primary means of destroying them, then you are going to get wrecked. You land, have no influence on the game, get shot at, possibly die, then charge a 55 point chimera or 35 point rhino, then die. Now I understand that sometimes you've got to declare that charge, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't charge a transport if you have range. I'm just saying that the more transports you kill off as you land and before you charge, the better.

With lash/oblits, plasma executioners and dreadnoughts running rampant on tables, plaguebearers have lost their fabled survivability, and I would probably switch to a mix of horrors and bloodletters if I played demons. And while bloodcrushers are still lean and points efficient killers, they can't handle dreadnoughts well, they still get lashed, and now they get mystic powered plasma.

This list needed 3 soul grinders desperately. If not soul grinders, then sniper princes to take advantage of fateweaver.

But these are all adjustments that a demon player wouldn't make until he has faced down hard guard or mech SM and mech CSM a bunch, so I'm not trying to insult your friend. But I've been having a bit more trouble with all my regular opponents as they add more light vehicle kill into their armies. And demons definitely can do that while still keeping the pressure on in the assault phase.

Thanks again for the batrep and I'm looking forward to the CSM reports. CSM are really good and they have been giving me some stiff competition.

nice report, thnks for sharing!

I have to agree with what Shep said about the list changing now that the Daemons player is aware of mech IG. I am very surprised at how well you were able to deal with 24 Crushers (especially in the first game when they had Kairos kicking around with them for so long) and reading this makes me feel a lot better about the matchup.

When I first read your list I thought it was interesting that you chose to Squadron your only 2 Russes, but as I read your report I realized that it makes such a deadly combo with the Mystics. I've got to give some thought to squadroning mine now, though there are quite a few matchups where I would prefer to have them seperate (namely against other mech lists so it aids target saturation and lets me shoot more stuff at a time).

Caffran9 wrote:nice report, thnks for sharing!

I have to agree with what Shep said about the list changing now that the Daemons player is aware of mech IG. I am very surprised at how well you were able to deal with 24 Crushers (especially in the first game when they had Kairos kicking around with them for so long) and reading this makes me feel a lot better about the matchup.

When I first read your list I thought it was interesting that you chose to Squadron your only 2 Russes, but as I read your report I realized that it makes such a deadly combo with the Mystics. I've got to give some thought to squadroning mine now, though there are quite a few matchups where I would prefer to have them seperate (namely against other mech lists so it aids target saturation and lets me shoot more stuff at a time).

Yeah, it has been very effective for me. They may be dangerously vulnerable to assaults, but nothing other than 3 Broadsides will really threaten the squadron from range and it just makes anything it targets go away! The Demolisher Cannon added to 7 plasma templates may seem like insane overkill, and it may be soon as people make adjustments to the way guard can just blow through even the toughest big units, but until that happens I love my squadrons.

I also agree that this kind of Kairos list is not something you will see once people adjust to guard, but it is one of the lists that people consider "super cheesy" and I want to be sure that the 211th can cut the cheese no matter how thick!

We will probably be runing a more balanced, Kairos list for future testing. I still think he is the best answer Deamons have to guard as without him my mysic plasma hell would have left very little alive for him move with. If the Deamons mix a good amount of shooting with the assault they can be a very solid threat still. I dont think Mono Tzetch is the answer as Deamons will never outshoot any SAFH but all they need to do is get rid of the PBS and the Mystics. Thats not that hard to do with enough sniping power.

I think one unit of crushers, fatweaver, 2 units of fiends, 3 RailTounge Grinders, and some horrors perhaps. Something like that with a balance of shoting, fast assault and one big frakking hammer to finish it off.

Thanks again for the batrep and I'm looking forward to the CSM reports. CSM are really good and they have been giving me some stiff competition.

The Lash games were my favorite so far, especially since both the PBS and Lash were mostly useless so it was not a game that relied on psycic trickery but good old fashioned Imperial Steel!!!

As effective as the PBS is, I actually dislike having them in the list. They dont feel like they really fit the theme of an Armored Cavalry Company to me, but this is 40k and Im pretty sure Pattons 3rd Army did not have to deal with Eldar Seer Councils or Green Skinned Hells Angels on steroids.

Still I wish I could make the list work against all comers without the need for them.

bigtmac68 wrote:

Thanks again for the batrep and I'm looking forward to the CSM reports. CSM are really good and they have been giving me some stiff competition.

The Lash games were my favorite so far, especially since both the PBS and Lash were mostly useless so it was not a game that relied on psycic trickery but good old fashioned Imperial Steel!!!

As effective as the PBS is, I actually dislike having them in the list. They dont feel like they really fit the theme of an Armored Cavalry Company to me, but this is 40k and Im pretty sure Pattons 3rd Army did not have to deal with Eldar Seer Councils or Green Skinned Hells Angels on steroids.

Still I wish I could make the list work against all comers without the need for them.

Totally, I feel that way about them too. And also vendettas. My army is all vostroyan, and I just don't see them climbing aboard some high tech navy craft. (i know their world is an admech sponsored techtriarchy, but I just don't like the aesthetic of cossacks with wooden rifles going air mobile)

I'll be painting the PBS chimeras and the valkyries red and black and making them inquisitorial. It has been making more sense for me to use ISTs and mystics as vendetta riders, and I could see the psyker battle squads being under observation by the ordo hereticus.

Just like with lash, once everyone gets tired of getting weaken resolved, they'll take units that are immune to it. When enough of them do that, then you'd be smart to spend your points on something else. Mech CSM can run a lash sorcerer or two if it wants, but I don't see a real reason to run a T5 MC with lash these days. Same will be true for running 2 PBS. Optional.

I have really enjoyed the batreps from you guys on the IG list.

I was wondering if you or Shep have played against one of the dual or even single Mounted Seer Council lists running around.

I am curious how the army would hold up against them.

Just goes to show the superiority of my brand of MSU Daemons vs. the Fatecrusher. Sissy mixed god list, the sooner it exits the better.

Nice report.

I would really like to see you two tesiting with three LR spams list. Like 3 LRC Black templar list or 3 LR marine list and see how does IG respond with armor 14. I guess a squadron of medusa would be the answer.

bigtmac68 wrote:

Thanks again for the batrep and I'm looking forward to the CSM reports. CSM are really good and they have been giving me some stiff competition.

The Lash games were my favorite so far, especially since both the PBS and Lash were mostly useless so it was not a game that relied on psycic trickery but good old fashioned Imperial Steel!!!

As effective as the PBS is, I actually dislike having them in the list. They dont feel like they really fit the theme of an Armored Cavalry Company to me, but this is 40k and Im pretty sure Pattons 3rd Army did not have to deal with Eldar Seer Councils or Green Skinned Hells Angels on steroids.

Still I wish I could make the list work against all comers without the need for them.

Great report, thanks for writing it.

I also hate the PBS and the mystics but they add alot of power to the list...I'm currently playing 1500 points and managing without the PBS, keeping the mystics (since deep strike is just hell without it for a mech army) but would love to put the PBS back in-must resist damn it!

My IG run with 1 vet, 1 infantry platoon with 2 infantry squads and I miss the special weapons but you do get that extra claiming unit which is nice (however an extra KP /sigh). KPs are a major major hassle as the battlereport highlighted.

I would really like to see you two tesiting with three LR spams list. Like 3 LRC Black templar list or 3 LR marine list and see how does IG respond with armor 14. I guess a squadron of medusa would be the answer.

Honestly Raiderspam is the list I am least afraid of due to the sheer mass of meltaguns I have available, plus the demolisher works great against them. Still a lot of people are expecting the guard to have trouble with them so I will put them on the Gauntlet list. BT Raiderspam could be dangerous, but I doubt it. The CCS pop the raiders, die and then the tanks kill the squishy ( to a Plasmolisher Squadron ) marines as they come out.

I was wondering if you or Shep have played against one of the dual or even single Mounted Seer Council lists running around.

This is the army that scares me the most, any form of Mechdar with a seer council or seer bikers,, Im very concerned about that list.

I agree on mechdar with biker councils as terrifying. Bigmac do you plan on putting one those lists in your gauntlet testing?

I'm going to have to get one of my buddies to proxy it but I plan on testing against it in a couple of weeks time.

My top priorities for testing at the moment are Mech Orks, Vulkan Marines and Crusherspam (the one I'll be playing against runs 2 Grinders with Tongue, which should make things interesting for sure).

Caffran9 wrote:I agree on mechdar with biker councils as terrifying. Bigmac do you plan on putting one those lists in your gauntlet testing?

I'm going to have to get one of my buddies to proxy it but I plan on testing against it in a couple of weeks time.

My top priorities for testing at the moment are Mech Orks, Vulkan Marines and Crusherspam (the one I'll be playing against runs 2 Grinders with Tongue, which should make things interesting for sure).

I need to find someone who can run Mech Orks, I may have to visit my friends up at Adventurers Guild and see if anyone has a fully mechanize ork list there. My friend here can run a terrible looking proxy for MechDar using Nob Bikes for the seer council. I may see who has what down at the Ice House Warriors club as well.

Mech Orks, Mechdar, and Vulkan Marines are likley to be common matchups in addition to Mech Lash. As I run vulkan Marines myself I am pretty confident that I know how to deal with it, but Mech Orks, and Mech Eldar I just dont know well enough so i think i need practice with them most of all.

Mech Orks could be frightening. They can put 4+ Battlewagons on the table and still have plenty of points for bells and whistles like Lootas and Nobs to ride in them (Lootas in a Wagon are WR immune :( ). I'm not sure what the matchup has in store, but I plan on testing it heavily in the coming weeks.

My group is in the same boat with Mechdar, it'll have to be proxied, and it will have to be ugly, but we all want to test against it a bit so we're going to have to deal with that.

I feel like Mech-Lash is a more winnable game for mech IG than Vulkan Marines is. Mech Lash won't have TL multimeltas all over and Chosen are scary, but their rhino can go down quick and IG lists have no problem eating MEQ alive. To be honest the Oblits are the scariest thing but if they don't deepstrike they'll be shooting Lascannons and the IG player wins that shootout for sure. If they do deepstrike then they're probably coming in piecemeal thanks to Fleet Officer(s). Maybe I'm missing something in the list for mech-lash (and if I am then fill me in lol), but I don't really feel very worried about it's matchup with my IG.

I'm going to be taking lots of notes in my testing games starting next week (no time to play this weekend :( ) and psting up reports as well. the more of us sharing info and experience the better we can all become! You, sourclams and Shep have been tremendous so far and hopefully I'll have worthwhile things to add in the future.

I think its great that we seem to have formed something of an informal guard testing cabal here, and it can only help all of us be more effective with our guard lists.

and perhaps by making things more open the metagame shift can be pushed towards the end of uber units and the return of MSU and Mechanized armies.

bigtmac68 wrote:I think its great that we seem to have formed something of an informal guard testing cabal here, and it can only help all of us be more effective with our guard lists.

and perhaps by making things more open the metagame shift can be pushed towards the end of uber units and the return of MSU and Mechanized armies.

but if guard is beating MSU and mech armies why play anything but guard

Actually it seems like MSU/mech armies are good against IG (of the Mechanized variety at least). The only uber unit type army I'm afraid of with IG is Biker Council Eldar. Aside from that things like Mech/fast moving melta marines, Mech Eldar, maybe mech orks, immo spam sisters, etc seem to be scary.