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1) With the GW price increases, is it cheaper to purchase the Warmachine and Hordes Minis?
2) How complex is the full rules? I have downloaded the quick start rules.
3) Can you do a campaign similar to WHFB's Mighty Empires?
4) Is there any existing articles on the Warmachine and Hordes Armies? If not, can someone give me a rundown on all the armies?

Thanks in advance

1. Not sure how much GW stuff costs. But you can get about a 500 point (35 point in Mk II) army for about $100-$150. I recently priced out a new Cryx army for Mk II 35 pts at about $130.

2. Not too complex. Mk II cleaned up a lot of the weird rules. Best way to learn would be through a demo game. It's hard to get a handle on all the rules without trying it (at least for me...I'm a hands on kinda guy). Overall I'd say the rules are about the same difficulty as GW rules, but are generally a lot clearer and cleaner. If you have played GW games, going to PP games should be pretty easy.

3. Sure, though you'll have to do it yourself. There aren't any pre-made supplements available. I think there was a campaign example in Hordes: Evolution, but I'm not sure how in depth it is.

4. Check out:
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

Not everything there is up to date, but it should give you a rough idea of how each faction plays.

As for #4, I'm trying to work on three word descriptions with the unruly mob here. They keep distracting
me with sexy, sexy Kaya.

Freaky Freddy wrote:1) With the GW price increases, is it cheaper to purchase the Warmachine and Hordes Minis?
2) How complex is the full rules? I have downloaded the quick start rules.
3) Can you do a campaign similar to WHFB's Mighty Empires?
4) Is there any existing articles on the Warmachine and Hordes Armies? If not, can someone give me a rundown on all the armies?

Thanks in advance

1) I don't know the direct model to comparable model comparison, but I do know that it is generally cheaper to get a tournament capable army list together. WM/H also has the advantage that changing your warcaster/warlock dramatically changes how your army plays. But after a while you start picking things up for variety's sake and the costs can increase quickly.

2) The most complex stuff is how Focus and Fury works. If you can handle those well, infantry and cavalry shouldn't be too difficult.

3) I don't know what this is. Is it a map based campaign? I'm pretty sure WM/H has one of those somewhere, but I don't recall where it is.

4) Malfred has been putting together a nice little library of WM/H articles right here on Dakka Dakka. Click on the "Articles" link near the top of your screen. Also, there is Battle College.

Well, to clear up question 1 a little, What is the average point size game that most people play and how much is the average cost to build a army that size?
What size tables do people play on?

4x4 feet
Acheron's post states the standard point size. I prefer larger, but for weekday evening play, 500
points is plenty.

malfred wrote:As for #4, I'm trying to work on three word descriptions with the unruly mob here. They keep distracting
me with sexy, sexy Kaya.

My original idea was "Big Booty Kaya"


To the OP: I think the Escalation book has some campaign stuff you can do.

As has been said before the campaigns in WM/ Hordes can be found in WM:Escalation and Hordes:Evolution books. At least the WM campaign is long series of scenarios. You can of course make your own campaign.

My 35 point Mk 2 cygnar army would cost $ 129 and my 500 points Mk1 skorne army would cost 136 if bought today from Maelstorm. Both lists have two units of grunts, 4 bigger models and couple of additional figs, and are pretty typical in WM/ Hordes composition.

Whats the difference between MK I and MK II?

They cleaned up and streamlined the rules so that there were less outright exceptions and things that broke up the flow of the game.

They also changed the point system to use smaller numbers, making it easier to point out armies, but losing some fine granularity (and good riddance).

They also rebalanced a lot of units so that units that were previously useless are useable, and units that were so powerful they were always selected were toned down slightly. The big change in this regard was making warjacks a lot more durable and deadly.

Many will say that Mk2 dumbed down the game, but this is not the case. The reality is that there's still just as much tactical nuance as before, but it's in different places.

Can you use a Warmachine Army against a Horde Army such as Khador vs Legion of Everblight?

Freaky Freddy wrote:Can you use a Warmachine Army against a Horde Army such as Khador vs Legion of Everblight?

Yes you can, which is part of the charm. The systems are using a lot of the same rules, only the warjack-warbeast and warcaster-warlock rules differ between the systems. The only problem in this is that the WM Mk2 is not compatible with Hordes Mk1.

Hordes Mk2 is going to be released to play test in January next year if current schedules can be trusted. Until then you have to play with Mk1 rules.

Thanks for all the input. Now to have a chat to the owner of the LGS and a few of the guys to see if i can get something happening.

Depending on your location, you can get your owner to contact a local Press Ganger to
see if they can come out to your store to run demos of the game.

1) Yes, getting a WARMACHINE/HORDES (WM/Ho) army started is probably 1/4 the price of some GW games. The starter pack at $50 (retail) will get you approximately 300 points, which is around 57%-62% of a 500-point army. WM/Ho are fairly affordable miniature games to get into. The $ starts to add up when you buy all the units for your faction. Buying EVERY model in your faction will probably cost you (slightly) less than a static, non-configurable WHFB army.

2) If you read and understood the starter rules then you already know 80% of the game mechanics. The complexity of WM/Ho do not come from the rules, but rather unit, model, warlock/warcaster interactions. Try to perform your one-two punch while preventing your opponent from executing their combo(s).

3) I don't see why not. There are some campaign examples and setups in the various expansions (Escalation, Evolution, etc.), but campaign rules are not quite as well supported as GW. However, PP has MUCH better tournament (aka Steamroller) support. If you enjoy playing in more competitive environments, then WM/Ho will be a lot of fun. Our LGS has a Steamroller every month.

4) With the exception of the Mercs, most WM/Ho players will agree that all the armies in WM/Ho are competitive. I think this question would be better answered if you tell us about your gaming style, and let people make recommendations. (i.e. Do you enjoy more defensive vs. offensive armies? Do you prefer slow & study vs. mobility? etc.)

Personally, leaving GW for PP was a great gaming decision.

Me personally, i play marines - bikers, rhinos and land speeders, i don't mind sacrificing offense/defense for mobility and speed

Freaky Freddy wrote:Me personally, i play marines - bikers, rhinos and land speeders, i don't mind sacrificing offense/defense for mobility and speed

Hrmm... T4, 3+ armor saves, deepstriking Terminators with Storm Shields & Land Raiders... I don't think you "sacrificed" too much for your mobility.

On a more serious note, if you enjoy mobility, then I would recommend staying away from Skorne & Troolbloods in HORDES, and Khador from WARMACHINE. Of course most of these factions are the most straight forward, walk up to your opponent and beat face.

If you enjoy the offensive game, then Cryx will probably be your style. Cryx can get into your face quickly with their mobile troops and jacks. Add advanced deploy to these bad boys and things get ugly quickly. Adding insult to injury, they can easily include a flock of speedy arc-nodes racing up your opponent's flanks channeling powerful spells against their softer targets. Cryx units are fragile, but they are hard to hit, and their are lots of them. They also have a lot of good warcasters...

If HORDES is more your style, then look into the Circle of Orboros; they are one of the most mobile armies in the game. With most of their army having high speed and the ability to ignore difficult terrain. Offensively, the Circle primarily uses more denial tactics, springing up forests in front of their army to prevent charges, teleporting beasts into the opponent's flank, deny spell casting with annoying units, etc.

i don't use terminators or land raiders, i use bikes (which are T5 but spend most of the time in the open without cover) and my tactical squads tend to walk alot as my rhinos tend to die first turn

PP games are less money than GW armies, because you're putting less models on the board (like 30 vs 100). But, the price per model is pretty comparable (sometimes more, sometimes less). If you want to buy 'one of everything and two of the good stuff', it's the same money you'd drop on a GW army.

It's a bit like comparing Bloodbowl to 40k. Of course, Bloodbowl will be cheaper, because it's a board, the book, and 16 minis.

dietrich wrote:PP games are less money than GW armies, because you're putting less models on the board (like 30 vs 100). But, the price per model is pretty comparable (sometimes more, sometimes less). If you want to buy 'one of everything and two of the good stuff', it's the same money you'd drop on a GW army.

It's a bit like comparing Bloodbowl to 40k. Of course, Bloodbowl will be cheaper, because it's a board, the book, and 16 minis.

Here's to one of everything and two of the good stuff!

dietrich wrote:If you want to buy 'one of everything and two of the good stuff', it's the same money you'd drop on a GW army.

That's not entirely true... You are correct that buying 'one of everything" will cost you about the same as a GW army. However, if you own "one of everything" in WM/Ho, then you can probably build HUNDREDS of functional and fun army lists vs. one inflexible GW list. Well, I guess you can change you your HQ's wargear if you go the HeroHammer route, but your army will fundamentally function the same...

WM/Ho on the other hand... Swap out your warcaster/warlock for another $15 model, and your army changes dramatically. There are so many types of warcasters and warlocks. Some buff warjacks/beasts, others infantry. Some hog focus, other spam spells, and some horde focus to beat you down in melee, and others can shoot you to pieces. Spend another $10 to swap in a solo and now you have a caster killer in your midst, or someone to buff your army, etc.

WM/Ho just feels like they have MUCH greater value.

I find that just 'swapping out casters' doesn't really happen. If the casters function differently, you're going to be changing jacks and units and solos as well. Would you take the same list with eStryker as Caine? Probably not. It'll have some stuff the same, but not a whole list.

And, with 40k, it seems like people generally to have a similar 'core' to their armies. You may swap out several units from one army to the other, but a number of units will probably stay the same.

But, I'd agree that spending the same on a PP army will, in general, give you more fieldable options than the same money spent on a 40k army.

I certainly can happen. For an upcoming event I was trying to make a list for my Khador and between the two casters I'm changing out of my lists, it's really the jacks that are changing, most of the Solo's, units, etc are all staying the same.

Granted, Khador has an easier time of this than other Factions.

dietrich wrote:If the casters function differently, you're going to be changing jacks and units and solos as well. Would you take the same list with eStryker as Caine? Probably not. It'll have some stuff the same, but not a whole list.

It's been awhile but most p.Haley and p.Caine lists I've faced are fairly similar. Both are shooty as heck with Long Gunners and occasionally Trenchers. I do see your point though. Aside from starter box battles, I don't think I've gone up against the same 500/750 point list twice...

dietrich wrote:But, I'd agree that spending the same on a PP army will, in general, give you more fieldable options than the same money spent on a 40k army.

Not to mention PP does not mess up entire armies with rules overhauls and new editions every 3-4 years.

For Cygnar, Siege and pStryker are usually pretty similar lists. My pHaley and pCaine lists were always pretty different though, but maybe that's me. My favorite two casters have been Darius and Caine (both versions), so that may jade my opinion.

Even with Trollbloods, I found that I would change out more than just the warlock. Champions and a Fell Caller were in every list, but then, why wouldn't they be?