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this is a question I can't get the answer to and was wondering if anyone knew


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would think no because the escaping model would leave each model's melee range at a slightly different time.....

Technically yes. However the model needs to leave the melee range of both models simultaneously, which is very difficult to do.

ah, makes sense. But, this would be such a hard thing to determine that I think each attack should be counted separately. Besides, who would take a CMAtk against a model (gaining only one add dmg die) when two attacks could be made with a net of 2 additional dmg die.....unless of course they are fighting a really tough model.

As GS stated:
Technically yes, but its mechanically and mathematically impossible to intentionally do or prove on the tabletop given the limitations of the human motor and nervous systems.

The only time it would ever come up is if you explicitly gave your opponents the opportunity to do this to you.
i.e."I want to purposefully move this guy so that both of your guys make simultaneous freestrikes. Wanna CMA me? Please?!?!?"

The answer is No but it has nothing to do with how a model moves out of melee range with multiple models. The CMA clearly states that it takes place "During a units Activation". Being that Free Strikes are attacks that take place "Outside" a units "Activation" CMA is not allowed.

beefHeart wrote:The answer is No but it has nothing to do with how a model moves out of melee range with multiple models. The CMA clearly states that it takes place "During a units Activation". Being that Free Strikes are attacks that take place "Outside" a units "Activation" CMA is not allowed.

That is the case in the MkII rules but it isn't in the MkI rules.

It has always been "implied" that special actions and special attacks of a unit occur inside of the units activation. The problem is rules lawyers twist and contort everything that is not explicitly spelled out. This is why it's the first sentence of the rules description in the MK2 redux.

Not so. However it is a little moot as you will *never* be able to generate a combined attack from a Free Strike in a real game.

Whatever...

If CMA was a special action or attack you would have something there. However in MK1 it is not, it is simply an ability that is always on and comes into effect whenever two models in the unit can make an attack.

The same is true for other abilities like Berserk or Critical Knock Down. When ever an attack is made, these rules are in play.

As others have stated, yes - but you have to essentially give it to your opponent. It's the kind of thing that is actually fairly elegant but takes some meshing of the game mechanics and basic geometry in order to work out. As such, it's cleared up for everyone nicely in MkII.

RAW vs ROI... That old endless debate.

All I can say is that the "intended" rule is now very clear in MK2 and that to me is progress...

Berserk and Criticals are different in that they are effects not attacks. Berserk is an effect of putting focus on the jack and KD is an effect of rolling doubles on an attack...

RAW vs. Writer's Intent doesn't really apply in Warmachine y'know. Infernal rulings carry the weight of both and can be requested at any time.

This is a testable theory if anyone wants to post the question on the PP boards.

The answer is already there and you guys are correct but I still believe the "intention" was for CMA to be an inside activation attack only and that's why it's very first sentence in the MK2 rule.

In a game, any game, there is a fair amount of conceptualization for things like movement, cover and LOS. The whole argument of exact distances and timing is just plain bad logic and to me sounds like a silly "infernal" ruling that became the defacto explanation. It's the rule because some brain-dead PGer at a tourney said it's the rule and then got others to accept his ridiculous explanation.

All and all MK2 is a good thing because it addresses a good number of these mechanical issues. LOS, Activation Orders, Combined Attacks, Active and Inactive player sequence issues just to name a few...

If there is one thing I've learned in 25 or so years of gaming it's that if rules are not exact and explicit people will always try to bend them in their favor...

I used to find this rule (out of activation CMA) useful for Steelhead Halberdiers who could use their Forefend in combination with CMA. MKII made some pretty sweeping changes to several out of activation rules.

Yeah, my friend used the Halberdiers to do this to me out of activation. I got him to accept the rule that technically a models leaves the other model's melee ranges at different times except in very rare circumstances....so we just said each model attacks separately.

Oh, and my friend still uses the CMA + Forefend attack, that make alot of sense to me and their card doesn't say you can't do that with the Halberdiers. It sucks, but it makes sense so I am ok with it.

As he should, Forefend triggers when a models movement ends (not during, like a freestrike). Steelhead Halberdiers don't have Forefend in MKII.

you have no idea how happy I am to hear that