Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As requested by Lord-Loss

You should include an option that says "I've never read a Horus Heresy book" if you want everybody to participate in the poll.

I would Vote, but I am only a third of the way through Horus Rising, and so cannot comment.

As sick and disturbing Fulgrim was, it happened to be an amazing book.

It was great how the characters changed from noble warriors striving to perfection to sick noise marines.

Chooses the "I've never read a Horus Heresy book" option.

@Lord: You and my boss at work are in agreement, but I have to disagree with both of you. Fulgrim was my LEAST favorite. I am only through book six, but so far, none of the Primarchs who have turned traitor have (in my mind) had any compelling reason to do so. The books are well written, and Dan Abnett has a way with Lovecraftian horror that makes my skin crawl...but the reasons for descending into Chaos seem contrived, and badly contrived at that.

I just want one (just one) Primarch, or character even, to show a single legitimate, or at least understandable reason, for turning to Chaos.

Fulgrim did have a reason.

He admired the Emporer more the other Primarchs expect for Lorgan. He felt betrayed and humiliated.

Fulgrim achualy put up a fight, unlike Horus though. Its a shame what happened to him, trapped in his own mind being tortured for his mistakes.

Still waiting for "Fallen Angels".

The 'reasons' to turn traitor are not so well done. Shows some primarchs as little girls when it comes to living your own life.
I am not really hit (as loyalist player) but i can see the disappointment of those who got a whiny OH NOES, DADDY isnt here Primarch.

I've added the not read option to the poll. Sorry about that folks.

Galaxy in flames is my fave so far, but am only 3/4 of the way of Eisenstein so that could change.

Vulkan77 wrote:Galaxy in flames is my fave so far, but am only 3/4 of the way of Eisenstein so that could change.

Im like 75 pages in and just cant sit down and read it.

I read Fulgrim, Legion and Galaxy in flames in a day, I dont find it incredibly interesting.

I was floored by the ending of "Legion".

I'm actually now thinking about doing a codex SM army using Chaos models painted in Alpha Legion colors.

I actually liked Collected Visions (if that count) the best. The art was amazing as well as the story.

This is an amazing series so far. I chose Eisenstein as my favorite because it shows the Empire at its weakest but still manages to find a couple shining beacons, such as Garro. His fight with the chaos bug was unbelivable. It was good to see that not all of the traitor marines went rogue, that there were still numerous ones who stayed true to the Emperor, even though they ended up crispy critters on Istvaan III

RennyD

jimsolo wrote:@Lord: You and my boss at work are in agreement, but I have to disagree with both of you. Fulgrim was my LEAST favorite. I am only through book six, but so far, none of the Primarchs who have turned traitor have (in my mind) had any compelling reason to do so. The books are well written, and Dan Abnett has a way with Lovecraftian horror that makes my skin crawl...but the reasons for descending into Chaos seem contrived, and badly contrived at that.

I just want one (just one) Primarch, or character even, to show a single legitimate, or at least understandable reason, for turning to Chaos.

read legion
and you will get your wish

jimsolo wrote:

Lord: You and my boss at work are in agreement, but I have to disagree with both of you. Fulgrim was my LEAST favorite. I am only through book six, but so far, none of the Primarchs who have turned traitor have (in my mind) had any compelling reason to do so. The books are well written, and Dan Abnett has a way with Lovecraftian horror that makes my skin crawl...but the reasons for descending into Chaos seem contrived, and badly contrived at that.

Fave has to be Fulgrim it is so sick and twisted! The artist really freaks me out tho!

Mechanicum and Legion both because they were both "OHMIFREAKINGOD" at the end.

Not read any yet, need to get into them but Mechanicum looks good, I think there is some cool stuff about titans in it from what i've heard ^_^

1hadhq wrote:Still waiting for "Fallen Angels".

The 'reasons' to turn traitor are not so well done. Shows some primarchs as little girls when it comes to living your own life.
I am not really hit (as loyalist player) but i can see the disappointment of those who got a whiny OH NOES, DADDY isnt here Primarch.

There was more to it then the Emperor physically left them. He was their father and they loved him. Then they were told he left them to ascend to God-hood, and they were to be left and forgotten. They felt that they has done everything they could do for him, for this great cause of uniting the Galaxy. It was a slap in the face to their honor that the Emperor, their father, had used them just so that he could become a god. They felt that his actions said they, his own sons, meant nothing to him. He has betrayed their love.

How would you feel if your father used you to advance himself and just abandoned you when he accomplished his goal? I bet your be rather hurt and angry.

@ Salted Diamond

I lol'd, because I'm thinking of doing a C:SM chapter using all loyalist models.

But, yeah-- Fulgrim and Legion were my favs. I really enjoyed Descent of Angels, also-- I think I might be in the minority there, though.

Salted Diamond wrote:I was floored by the ending of "Legion".

I'm actually now thinking about doing a codex SM army using Chaos models painted in Alpha Legion colors.

Funny so was I, but in a bad way. I mean a primarch meets a bunch of random xenos who tell him he must turn traitor.

So he's like OK, sure, not doing anything this week anyway.

Abnett builds great worlds but does not seem to know how to finish books. The Gaunt's Ghosts books often have a similar issue.

Anyway Lego, you need a 'they're all disappointing' option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cadian512 wrote:

jimsolo wrote:@Lord: You and my boss at work are in agreement, but I have to disagree with both of you. Fulgrim was my LEAST favorite. I am only through book six, but so far, none of the Primarchs who have turned traitor have (in my mind) had any compelling reason to do so. The books are well written, and Dan Abnett has a way with Lovecraftian horror that makes my skin crawl...but the reasons for descending into Chaos seem contrived, and badly contrived at that.

I just want one (just one) Primarch, or character even, to show a single legitimate, or at least understandable reason, for turning to Chaos.

read legion
and you will get your wish

Did we read the same book?

I really enjoyed Fulgrim, it showed how insidious Chaos can be, and how you never pick things up off the floor

MC

I've read all the Horus Heresy books so far - except Fallen Angels, which has been ordered - and the Horus Heresy series is AWESOME!

My favourite book was Legion - so many twists - and I think after all he found out from the xenos he had reason to turn. However Fulgrim and the 1st two books were close behind... However I feel some of the short stories in Tales of Heresy deserve a mention, particually the Last Chapel(or was it church?!) one. Mechanicum was great though, I love the titans and it provided a great insight into the mechanicum and the emperor

I think basically any of the books by Dan Abnett of Graham McNeill were greate

Although I thought Battle for the Abyss was rather s**t, and I wasn't so keen on Flight of the Eisenstien and Descent of Angels wasnt particually good, or bad in my opinion

Now would they hurry up with my precious Space Wolves!

Collected Visions. The entire Heresy compiled in one volume.

Chickenlegs! wrote:
However I feel some of the short stories in Tales of Heresy deserve a mention, particually the Last Chapel(or was it church?!) one.

I had the exact opposite reaction. I really hated that one. It read like some smart-ass college punk's essay on why atheism is superior to religion. Not only that, it confirmed my view of the Emperor as Josef Stalin with psychic powers.

The more I read about the Emperor, the more I sympathize with the Tau, if not the Sons of Horus. And I say this as a Space Marines player!

lol. I agree slightly with your point about the anti-religious crusade.

On a side note, the demonic entity that 'posessed' Fulgrim was a punk. It had no background prior to the book. had it been, say, Slaanesh himself, I would have been more impressed. Some penny ante demon that we have never heard of who corrupted an alien culture no one has ever heard of isn't impressive. With each book, I am more impressed with the Primarch involved, and less impressed with their reasons for turning traitor.

Now, its all an opinion issue, and if the fluff so far is enough to float your tuna boat, then by all means play Chaos. But so far, the HH books have turned me off of all chaos-oriented stuff.

The way the Primarchs have been turned would be acceptable for a normal person. But the Primarchs are supposed to be the paragons of humanity, the exemplars of everything that we COULD be. That's half the attraction of the Imperium. And when a Primarch makes a mistake, I feel it should be a mistake that I, myself, would have never made. If I see it coming and can say 'thats a bad idea,' a Primarch should have seen it coming twice as long as that. As a writer, you would have to come up with some insidious scheme to corrupt them that is both sufficient to waylay a Primarch, and something that is a total surprise to the reader, and something that has been foreshadowed enough that it isn't just a 'bolt out of the blue' kind of thing.

A challenge for an author? Certainly. But these guys have been trusted to write the saga that formed the world we play in. They shouldn't expect it to be a walk in the park.

The Greater Demon that possessed Slaanesh probaly existed for millions of years in the warp, possessed and killed scores and fought battles upon hundreds of thousands of worlds.


But the Primarchs dispite being Demi-Gods have very human minds, which I liked about them. I didnt want some amazing warrior who always right and is super human.

I read horus rising while i was on holiday, so awesome!:( wanna make a Sons of Horus pre-herasy army now

jimsolo wrote:lol. I agree slightly with your point about the anti-religious crusade.

On a side note, the demonic entity that 'posessed' Fulgrim was a punk. It had no background prior to the book. had it been, say, Slaanesh himself, I would have been more impressed. Some penny ante demon that we have never heard of who corrupted an alien culture no one has ever heard of isn't impressive. With each book, I am more impressed with the Primarch involved, and less impressed with their reasons for turning traitor.

The Laer were actually mentioned back in the old White Dwarf Chapter Approved article on the Emperor's Children, but the fluff for them was totally altered in the book.

jimsolo wrote:
Now, its all an opinion issue, and if the fluff so far is enough to float your tuna boat, then by all means play Chaos. But so far, the HH books have turned me off of all chaos-oriented stuff.

The way the Primarchs have been turned would be acceptable for a normal person. But the Primarchs are supposed to be the paragons of humanity, the exemplars of everything that we COULD be. That's half the attraction of the Imperium. And when a Primarch makes a mistake, I feel it should be a mistake that I, myself, would have never made. If I see it coming and can say 'thats a bad idea,' a Primarch should have seen it coming twice as long as that. As a writer, you would have to come up with some insidious scheme to corrupt them that is both sufficient to waylay a Primarch, and something that is a total surprise to the reader, and something that has been foreshadowed enough that it isn't just a 'bolt out of the blue' kind of thing.

A challenge for an author? Certainly. But these guys have been trusted to write the saga that formed the world we play in. They shouldn't expect it to be a walk in the park.

I'm not so down on the way the Primarchs have been handled. The way I look at them is, they remind me of the Olympian gods: super-human beings, but with all the faults of humans. And when those faults take over, the bad results are amplified. So, if they act like temperamental human brats at times, well, so did the Olympians. If they did things for petty reasons, so did the Olympians. Like the Olympians, the Primarchs are physically superior to humans and have superior mental powers, but not necessarily (or even often) superior wisdom and superior moral fiber.

@ Lord of Sloths: Point. I see what you are saying, and when it comes to the petty jealousies amongst one another, you're right. Or when they make particular battlefield decisions. But turning against the Emperor? Turning to Chaos? I guess I am just not seeing it. There isn't enough motive there for me to think that their decision is justified.

@ Lord Loss: That demon may, or may not, have been in the warp for however long it was. But it doesnt mean a fiddler's fart to me unless I (the reader) have some kind of context for it. When you establish a villain who is less powerful, but has been around longer, it means more to the reader. Just making up some 'all powerful corrupting influence' on the fly is nonsense.

And I think I may have identified the problem. Chaos is ridiculous.

Chaos:"We run around and tear stuff up and rape babies and eat virgins and steal everyone's stuff!"
Me: "Why?"
Chaos: "Uhhhh...Blood for the Blood God, fool!"

They have no motivation. At least the Necrons are killing things for a REASON. They are old and bitter and want all of these punk teenagers off of their galactic lawn. I dont even like the Eldar, but at least they have motivation. Chaos has none. Really, they aren't even scary. Just silly. (Okay, the Nurgle demons in Horus Rising were scary as a sonofagun. But Abnett is a good 'scary' writer) I mean, Angron is a joke. All I can see him as is a parody of Space Marines. I hope that isnt what the authors intended. Chaos just needs...well, a reason. Any kind of reason would be nice.