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I'm playing a game on saturday vs High Elves. This will be a 5000 point game and an all day adventure. The plan is to have Dark Elves teamed with Orcs and Goblins vs High Elves and Vampire Counts. I need to make a 2500 point list that will do damage to the High Elves. I'm asking for help as I'm not realy knowning how to go against ASF. Any recommendations would be helpful. Thanks!!!!!!

First: ASF means nothing in the shooting phase. And the Dark Elf Repeating Crossbows have more firepower in less frontage than the High Elf Bowmen. SO... Repeater Crossbows are your friends.

Second: ASF means nothing in the magic phase, and you have some of the best magicians in WFB. Use them.

Third: Banner of Hag Graef. Given to a unit of Black Guard will enable them to go first before most High Elves. Including, IIRC, Swordmasters.

Fourth: Impact hits occur before close combat begins, thus happen before ASF. Cold one chariots can be of use here, at least for dealing with lesser units or in support charges.

Fifth: An assassin with the Dagger of Hotek goes before pretty much everything.

Sixth: Eternal Hatred. Once you get into close combat, you get to reroll all missed close combat attacks. All the way through the combat, not just on the first round! High Elf players seem to really hate this.



Personally I think giving ASF to all the High elves, all the time, was pretty cheesy. But given their tournament record, it's not really broken, so I suppose it's justified.

When you hit with nerf bats, and your armor is cardboard, ASF isn't as good as people complain about. On sword master though, gah don't go near them with anything that can't go before them. Luckily they can be shot to pieces. Like all elf armies.

OP:

The fact that you are keen to take on the HE when the O&G are better suited seems a bit weird. I say this because elite armies like HE HATE fanatic bombs. Bring a half dozen or more of the little buggers, and your opponents small blocks will vaporize. VC will just laugh of the loss of a few zombies and make more.

DE on the other hand have the volume of attacks both melee and ranged to concentrate VC blocks to nothing and kill the vampires in CC or magic. DE are good against horde armies, or armies that try to play block hammer.

DE and HE are relatively equally matched TBH, whoever charges usually loses, (done the math with most units that would be taken). So it ends up being a relatively fair game between the two. Dark Elves HATE fair play. Besides Goblins want to kill elves because they are scary, and DE also go back with VC to the beginning of the Undead. So their are both fluff and game reasons why you would want to switch who you and your teammate fights.

Well since it is a game on short demand, it might be best if you said which units you own, and how many of each. Nothing quite like telling a player he needs 18 ASF black guard and finding out that he liked executioners better and doesn't have the BG, but does have 20 of the guys with slow swords.

IF you have them, a hydra or two is always a good suggestion. They have a good chance of surviving what HE can dish out with ASF and bolt throwers, and with their high number of S5 attacks (or flame breath) they will easily get their points back if you get them to the enemy.

We have talked about mixing the units somewhat. I was debating on taking Shadowblade for fun. Add a few fanatic bombs on my side of the field to deal with swordmasters. Here is a list of my Dark Elves army. I think the guy I bought this army from basically lead a bunch of Executioners up the gut closely followed by the Cauldron of Blood.

Lord on Dragon
Lord on Manticore
2 War Hydras
2 Chariots
24 Speaman with shield
33 Black Ark Corairs
10 Black Guard
10 Shades
27 Crossbowmen
50 Witchelves
47 Executioners
2 Assassin
2 Sorceress
Sorceress on Cold One
11 Cold One Knights
One Dread lord on Cold One
Cauldron of Blood 3 Hags
3 Dark Riders
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower

From what it looks like to me, it looks like he was a big fan of khainite units.

Well, the bad news is you don't have enough dark riders or black guard to do what I normally suggest doing. That is quite a few corsairs and executioners as well. The bad news is you have a huge number of what are generally considered the weaker parts of the DE army. My suggestion is to just run with a theme, and build a khainite army with crone hellebron on maticore. Will it be good? probably not, but it WILL be a huge heap of fun. (esp if you get to fight the vc side.)

Here is a funny as can be khainite army, modeled on the MSU idea. It uses the cauldron as a mobile stubborn bunker, and is down right mean with all the small deadly units running around.

Crone on Manticore ~ 550
Cauldron ~ 200
scroll caddy ~ 150

4 units of 12 witches with no upgrades
2 units of 12 executioners with music
2 units of 5 GW shades
2 assassins with rending stars and manbane
2 war hydras

The idea of this army is to move the small units up surrounding the stubborn bubble. Give blessings bases on what unit needs it the most. Extra attacks for executions that actually have a chance to attack, and KB or wards for witches. Also keep in mind you CAN give the hydra the cauldron blessing from what I can tell. Yes, that is incredibly silly. Crone is meant to make witches core, and lets be honest.... a monster riding a manticore is pretty awsome. (yes, crone is one scary character, worse than just about any monster except for the fact she never heard of armor.)

I like this list, though I haven't used Witch Elves for sometime as I find of they drop like flies.

yeah, but when you have that many units and you have then count as core, they actually fare pretty well with the stubborn bubble. Also it is highly likely that you can get a few flank charges off I suspect. When you have so many small units you can swarm over more elite or block hammer oriented armies. They don't do all that well against HE (ASF) or shooting, but once they get into combat against normal R&F guys, they are relatively safe as long as they don't overrun into a trouble situation.