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I am new to warmachine (and dakka dakka)...I have played 40k in the past a long time ago and was a very active heroclix and WoW minis player so tabletop gaming is nothing new to me.

I heard about the restart of warmachine and have been looking to get back into miniature gaming but couldnt really find a game that really drew in interest. 40k seems so much more expensive and i dont think ive ever seen anyone play WH fantasy before. Hordes and warmachine seem like theres a good number of players with a lower price tag than 40k...I tend to like getting right up in close combat so khador seems to be a easy fit for me

anyways...Ive read over the mk2 rulebooks and the card pdf...and I have been writing up army lists so i can get an idea of what figures i should look at buying first.

Ive noticed that all the 50pt army lists ive drawn out always seem to start with the same template:

Butcher
3 warjacks (usually juggernaut, marauder and destroyer...but i have jotted down a few lists that include kodiak and beast 09)
war dog
mechanics (leader+3 grunts)
widowmakers (leader+3 grunts)
20-30pts (whatever points are left) are used to focus on whatever kind of army i wanted to focus on

So i was curious if this template I have is a good start or just a bad habbit?

for reference and critique here is the man o war list I have been leaning twards building:

The Butcher of Khardov (+6)
Destroyer - 9
Juggernaut - 7
Marauder - 7
War Dog - 1
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 grunts) - 2
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) - 4
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (Leader and 4 grunts) - 9
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (Leader and 4 grunts) - 9
Man-O-War Drakhun (mounted) - 5
Man-O-War Kovnik - 3

thoughts? (i dont know how good the shocktroopers are but the two 5 sets of demo guys can be cut down to the 3 sets for a 3 set of shocktroops if i find out they are worth it)

Well, I have only played MK1 so far (My shop is going to prolly switch right after the current escelation) so my experience lies in what worked in MK1. Let me just start with this: My first purchase was Beast-09 and then Vladimir, Dark Prince and I find them both ending up in every single list I make. Beast just has tons of strengths. Infantry? Beast has Thresher and Imprint: Murderous. Jacks? P+S 19 axe and an open fist to throw lights. Snipers? Beast takes an extra movement if they try. The only times he ever fails me is against Cygnar if he gets scrambled. Other than that, he's a force of nature.

Vlad is getting toned down in MK2, but will probably be still effective. Just not as broken. I haven't had much experience with the Butcher but from what I can see, he's a strait up badass that likes lots of 'Jacks. Your opponents let him get a charge off on their warcaster exactly once, and then he should have a 10" deadzone that nobody wants to place dudes. (5" movement + 3" for charge +2" for Reach is 10")

As for Jacks, Kodiak is a fine addition to any force. Two is brutal in MK2 as the first one combo throws the target and the second one charges and Hammerfists for extra d6. Add onto that Vent Steam for infantry and All Terrain and the Kodiak is an excellent 'jack.

Devastator also works well against infantry. Its attack dosn't need to hit and delivers instant POW 18 goodness that can then be boosted. Its ARM 25 renders it nigh immune to your foes attempts to kill it before it can go off. This was my second 'jack purchase and I find I win better playing it.

The Juggurnaut I have mixed feelings about. For me he's a cheap 'jack with a strong attack that usually ends up recieving more charges than he makes. For almost the same points I'd rather run a squad of Widowmakers, Kell Bailoch and Eiress. Its only 4 points more!

Destroyer is a good 'jack, but since it fills the same number of points in MK1 as Beast, I havn't really played it much. There is a lot to be said about a Kodiak throwing someone to the ground and then Bombarding the holly hell out of it from a range with one of these and a couple Winterguard Morter Crews.

I have never touched the Marauder, so I have no idea about it.

If you want to run tones of 'jacks might I suggest Karchev the Terrible? He got some major tech in MK2 and all his jacks got better. With him you want the Repair Crews and the War Dog, no question.

Hope this helps, sorry for the wall of text

Do you have any figures? If you have all those Man-O-Wars then go with them. If not, I suggest a different path.

Battle box, Widowmaker box, and 10 Iron Fang Pikemen with the Unit Attachment. This will probably run about $170 and is an extremely versatile force that includes Khador staples. You can drop in almost any other 'caster in and it'll work pretty well. Plus you'll probably use those guys in almost any other build.

The reason I say this is because of the money cost of Man-O-Wars, and the frustrations I initially had with them. They are slow, but they definitely hit hard. The Butcher also takes a bit to get used to. However, they do mesh well with the Butcher, because of the medium bases to block LOS to him, as well as the Butcher being pretty slow as well.

The Butcher also offers a lot for 'jacks in MKII, so do not be afraid to run 3 'jacks with him. His spell Full Throttle makes them run extremely efficiently. I'd say the Kodiak is the most efficient with that spell.

Otherwise, if you are dead set on that list, it has a lot of potential. It'll probably cause frustrations initially, but after some headaches, could become quite effective.

DSJohns wrote:Do you have any figures? If you have all those Man-O-Wars then go with them. If not, I suggest a different path.

Battle box, Widowmaker box, and 10 Iron Fang Pikemen with the Unit Attachment. This will probably run about $170 and is an extremely versatile force that includes Khador staples. You can drop in almost any other 'caster in and it'll work pretty well. Plus you'll probably use those guys in almost any other build.

The reason I say this is because of the money cost of Man-O-Wars, and the frustrations I initially had with them. They are slow, but they definitely hit hard. The Butcher also takes a bit to get used to. However, they do mesh well with the Butcher, because of the medium bases to block LOS to him, as well as the Butcher being pretty slow as well.

The Butcher also offers a lot for 'jacks in MKII, so do not be afraid to run 3 'jacks with him. His spell Full Throttle makes them run extremely efficiently. I'd say the Kodiak is the most efficient with that spell.

Otherwise, if you are dead set on that list, it has a lot of potential. It'll probably cause frustrations initially, but after some headaches, could become quite effective.

I sold my warhammer 40k army and a big stack of old magic the gathering cards for startup funds for warmachine...So i was fine with dropping the cash on whatever army list i settled on...However on every forum ive read they suggest playing pikemen...so picking up a box of them is probably a good idea...they probably arent that bad to just have lying around anyways...

for more reference here is the 20pt list that I am going to suggest as the most basic khador starter army template

Khador 20pt army
Caster +X (not Zevanna Agha as +3 will not fit this mold)
Juggernaut 7
Destroyer 9
War Dog 1 (if X=6)
iron fang pikemen 5
widowmakers 4

I plan on playing this with butcher in my caster spot until i get the hang of the game, then changing pikemen and wardog to man-o-war guys and easing into bigger games

I'd say pump it up with the +4 IFP and the UA. Then use Sorcha and Vlad for a bit. They'll be very forgiving for you to get a hold of the rules. After that it would be an easy transition to Butcher. Then start moving to MoW. At least that's what I'd do if I were starting Khador from scratch in MKII

dont fear the butcher as your first caster. he is pretty user friendly from the get go.

vlad and sorsha are good as well. i was a vlad player in mk1, but i dont like him as much in mk2, so i went with the butcher and irusk as soon as the mk2 cards were released.

when rocking the butcher, you need to keep in mind that having solos with a fast movement is crucial, since the butcher himself has no movement tricks. also upkeeping iron flesh on him is always a good idea.

i play alot of 35 pointers, running this list:

butcher +6
behemoth 7 (13-6)
wardog 1
great bears 5
fenris w/ dismount 5
drakhun w/ dismount 5
manhunter 2
manhunter 2
yuri the axe 3
widowmakers 4

this is also my irusk list, since butcher and irusk have the same jack points i swap them regularly. having 2 fast hitters that move 8+ and a load of solos and the bears all move 6 really helps out with flanking. ive been toying with a similar list that drops the behemoth and fenris and adds a spriggan and kodiak.

have fun with the butcher. he hits like a heavy jack, and late game dont be afraid to send him into something large, he will usually take it down with 2-3 hits.

The main reasons for giving the suggestions that I did, were taking both cost and playability into account. I also believe that Butcher isn't really difficult, but sometimes he needs key models to really use all of his abilities to the max. He also craves something to keep him hidden till you can deliver him to your enemy. Both Vladimir and Sorcha are pretty forgiving, although neither one is as brutal as they once were. Also IFP and Widowmakers are devastating on their own without much support, and reach amazing levels when given buffs.