Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So after three games at 1k, we've decided to up the ante to 1500. I'm pretty much at a loss as to what to do with this list. I want to try out Black Guard with Hotek and ASF, but being just shy of 300pts bothers me. I also want to give magic another run, but it feels like I really need three Sorcs for it to be worthwhile, but that really eats into my list.

Hero:
Sorceress - Lv.2, Sacrificial Dagger - 160
Sorceress - Lv.2, Tome of Furion - 150
Sorceress - Lv.2, Darkstar Cloak - 160

Core:
20x Warriors - Shields, Full Command, War Banner - 180
10x Crossbowmen - 100
10x Crossbowmen - 100
5x Harpies - 55
5x Harpies - 55

Special:
12x Witch Elves - Banner of Murder - 155
5x Cold One Knights - 135

Rare:
War Hydra - 175

Total thus far: 1425


In all honesty, my past few games the big block of SCR Warriors did absolutely nothing. Nobody was in range and nobody charged them. I wonder if I shouldn't just move it back to 15x plain Warriors, no upgrades just as dagger fodder. Then I can take the remaining 90, along with the 75pts left over, and maybe even drop a unit of Harpies if I really wanted to get something with the 220pts available from that.

Honestly I have found that magic is a bit dissapointing until you can get a lord.

I would give it a try at first but if the 3 lvl 2's don't work out, I would put a Master with the CoK, and get another block of static resolution to act as another small anchor for the CoK or Hydra.

Casper wrote:Honestly I have found that magic is a bit dissapointing until you can get a lord.

Yeah, I imagine that will be the case. With DE Sorcs, though, we can generate and actually put to use the mass amounts of PD available to us with hero-level Wizards, unlike most other armies. We'll see. I like magic and I think I just really want to make it work.

Casper wrote:I would put a Master with the CoK, and get another block of static resolution to act as another small anchor for the CoK or Hydra

Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'm always iffy about putting a Master with CoK since they always wind up either dead due to concentrated shooting and magic or they plow through whatever I threw them at on their own, no upgrades needed.

I would drop a sorc for a master on cold one and the witch elves for more elite troops. With 230 pts you can buy a lot, e.g. 15 black guard with full command.

Eldar Own wrote:I would drop a sorc for a master on cold one and the witch elves for more elite troops. With 230 pts you can buy a lot, e.g. 15 black guard with full command.

The Master on a Cold One idea is certainly plausible and I'll very likely consider it the moment my CoK need more punch. Maybe when they run into a Hellpit Abomination this evening.

Define "more elite troops" than Witch Elves. Nobody has shot at them, usually because I give them other things to be more afraid of than naked women. However, once those women get in combat I'm getting 18 poisoned attacks with hatred and armor piercing. Obviously they aren't meant to charge right into a block of Chosen, but few things are. However, I have no qualms throwing them at all kinds of other things like Doomwheels, Chariots, heck, maybe even the Abomination simply because it only gets a 4+ save and they can probably tack on a few wounds. Not to mention destroying RnF troops.

Maybe I'm just not understanding all the dislike for Witch Elves, they seem quite awesome for their points. Not quite scary enough to concentrate fire on, but too scary to ignore, especially if I can get a Cauldron in the list. In my 1k games, I found that the Cauldron just didn't do enough to warrant its 200pts, though. I lacked the stalwart support of a Master or a Sorceress. It was nice dropping ward saves or extra attacks here and there, but it often was not necessary. Maybe I could swap out a Sorc for a CoB and give it another run?

I really like this list and might give it a go for a game on saturday. But I'm tempted to included a Master on a Cold One.

Well I personally have had good luck with witch elves. Just yesterday they killed most of a chaos knight unit and ran them off the board. I felt awfully proud of the girls because I didn't even give them killing blow to do it. Then I was all sad because I DID give killing blow to some crossbow elves, then desperation charged a unit of chaos knights (he ran 3 units of 5 knights) and they amazingly managed to kill 2 knights but still lost. (the game was draw, but if I managed to kill or get half points for the knights, I would have had a marginal victory)

Now obviously witches aren't meant to take on high armor units, but give them a normal toughness (3-4) 4-5+ save infantry models to shred, and they will carve right through entire ranks. At 155 points, they cost as much a normal SCR warrior block, but should kill way more than the warriors easily doing better than the 4-5 SCR that the warriors have. Anyone who has had the misfortune of getting hit by witches counter charging will just ignore any RxB that are in front of said witches.

I personally find warriors most useful in a list that features other block units. So if you go with a big block of blackguard, a full res block of warriors is a good thing to pair up with it. I try to think of warriors and other block units like pawns in chess. They don't really do much for combat, since they have rather obvious offensive limits. What they DO do is deny areas of movement for the enemy, block access to vulnerable backfield areas, and kill exposed units as best they can. One unit of warriors is obviously going to fail at most of the above roles since they can be isolated, bypassed, and ignored fairly easily.

I actually think the magic will work pretty well for you. Since you have 3 wizards who should know chillwind (most important spell in dark lore), you should have a good chance of stopping a decent amount of shooting.

Well, this is the list I went with. Magic was a tad disappointing, but I think that's mostly my fault for being a bit too defensive with the ladies and keeping them just out of range, waiting for my opponent to come to me. Bad part is they never did.

This is the list I went with:

Hero:
Sorceress - Lv.2, Sacrificial Dagger - 160
Sorceress - Lv.2, Tome of Furion - 150
Sorceress - Lv.2, Darkstar Cloak - 160

Core:
Assassin - Manbane, Rending Stars - 145
15x Warriors - 90
10x Crossbowmen - 100
10x Crossbowmen - 100
5x Harpies - 55
5x Harpies - 55

Special:
14x Witch Elves - Banner of Murder - 175
5x Cold One Knights - 135

Rare:
War Hydra - 175

Total: 1500

The Assassin was hiding with the Dagger Sorceress as a counter-attack measure that never happened, so that was 145pts that didn't do anything all game. Between that and my Sorcs being just out of range half the time, most of the work was done elsewhere.

That assassin type really only works with shades. If you use an assassin defensively you should probably give him one of the rune of khaine combinations.

notabot187 wrote:That assassin type really only works with shades. If you use an assassin defensively you should probably give him one of the rune of khaine combinations.

Yeah, I thought about that afterwards. Of course, nobody came near my Sorc so nothing really happened with it. I'm wondering if a Cauldron would be alright in a 1500 list. I felt it was too points-heavy for its purpose in a 1k game, but there seems to be a little more wiggle room at 1500.