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Hello all!

I've been browsing around these forums for a few days and decided, having very recently taken the plunge into the dark waters of warmachine and cryx, to ask for some sage advice please!

Two friends and I have each started out with the battleboxes (cygnar and khador for them, cryx for myself) and i have only got in one game so far (as a Scryah player no less...) so am very inexperienced. I'm come from a fairly extensive backround of 40k (boo hiss I hear! ) so be gentle please!

I am probably going to take advantage of an online stores last day of sale tonight (London is rubbish for warmachine stockists!) and am tempted to get quite a big order. No where seems to have the mkii card sets in yet either sadly so am partly going on whats been said here and what looks cool!

I fancy either a Denny or Gaspy list preferably, and am thinking of picking up the following -
plastic Helljack
Mechanithrall Unit
Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls
Nightmare
Skarlock thrall

all for about £68. Another £32 would get me free shipping, so could be tempted if there are suggestions! particularly wondering if I should be upping the mecanithralls to full unit? I really want a cankerworm, but they're out of stock and I will try and get this at a FLGS as I have a mk.1 deck of cards (bought in error - why are they also called mk.ii!?!) to exchange, so gaspy and cankerworm may be part of that.

Anyway, do those potential purchases seem suited to a new player, wishing to go jack heavy, against other jack heavy/exclusive lists? Any and all advise is welcomed!

I am very much the keen painter and modeller, and my battlebox stuff is well on its way now, so i'll post these to the modelling section tonight.

Thanks for your time!

G

Hola,
Welcome into the fold of the Dragonlord!

Couple of things:
Deny and a Skarlock - solid. An easy build to learn with easy Deny and Death Chickens/assassin bit but viable and not overpowered as most folks are used to it. As you become more experienced, you can swap her for Witch Coven for tactical variability.

Always take full units of McThralls, and I like a brute thrall in there as well. Lots of folk not feeling the love for Necros, but I love 'em.

As a solid, no-nonsense unit, you're hard pressed to beat Bane Thralls any day of the week.

Nightmare, though he buffs with Deny, is not wonderful in my experience: screams target.

My favourite Deny list that I run just now is (loosely, off my head) a ghost list:
Deny
Skarlock
10 Bane Knights
10 Bane Thralls
Banelord Tartarus
Helljack of choice (say, Slayer from your battlebox)
Couple of death chickens (ditto battlebox)

Ghost Walk is your friend with this list - from Deny and the Skarlock and Tartarus flings your banes up the battlefield. It's very aggressive for what look like a stealth list, and will surprise a lot of folk whilst being pretty user-friendly to play with. You can throw in a Machine Wraith - really annoys Khador players, I find - Pistol Wraiths (but always use them in pairs or they're not nearly as potent), and still fit the theme, though neither are especially competitve. I've played this also with two jumpy jacks (sorry, Stalkers) and it's the only time they survive past turn 2 for some reason.

As for other thoughts, just play with it. Cryx are fast, adaptable but flimsy, and a lot of fun to play. Jack Heavy cryx is a hard build, though well-suited to Witch Coven with their 9 focus. Equally, you could run with Goreshade as long as you don't really care about his spells (which is actually a fairly viable strategy). If you do go Heavy Jack Heavy, Deathjack is awesome; Seethers are very potent (just abandon them in the middle of the enemy and wreak havoc); the gun jacks are less fab but work in the right list (eg Leviathan anti-infantry). Also, any time I have an open-fisted Jack I like to include a Bloat Thrall, just to throw at people...

Hey ho,
graven

Thanks for the detailed feedback inmygravenimage!



I was hearing good things about Seether and the Deathjack is getting alot of love from the community it seems, so I might give that a go, rather than nightmare - despite the fact I love the model!

The Bane Thralls particularly seem to feature in a lot of lists, but I'm sooo keen on getting infantry (esp. expensive(£) models) units while my group are still learning. i'm trying to go jack heavy, anti-jack and maybe an experiment with the Mecanithralls and replenishing Necrosurgeon behind.

I was trying to think how I can make McThralls as a cheap, plastic conversion using other models (GW zombies that I have combined with bits/necrons?), but I doubt its worth the effort looking at them.

I have no particular intention to go gunjacks at the mo.


Thanks for the reply, all useful! Any further comments obviously welcome! Are pDenny and pGaspy particularly useful with jacks? What might you recommend for anti-jack work? The Coven sound cool, and look even better as models, but might be something I move to later as their spells/abilities seem somewhat subtle for a beginner...?

If you're going to run Deneghra, always always always run at least 2 bonejacks. 3 is preferable, and 4 is pushing it but still doable. The change of the defiler from a single shot to a spray attack makes it infinitely better, and it's useful for ranging Denny's spells. (Crippling Grasp is arguably the best debuff in the game. Combine it with her feat to make a unit a really easy target) Venom is a great spell to arc node, and can be cast multiple times per turn.

I really like Slayers, as they're cheap and effective. If you're going to be running against 'jack heavy armies though, Seethers are much more effective. They'll hit Khador 'jack on everything but double 1s, and their chain attack means they can throw it away and knock it down. Nightmare, despite being a heavy 'jack, is actually best used as a caster killer. With Reach, it has an effective 11 inch charge range, or if it starts within 10 inches of it's prey (which should usually be the enemy caster) it can simply walk up and be in range. MAT 8 means a boosted attack can easily hit most casters, and P+S 18 means you'll be rolling dice +2 or 3 for Damage, usually. gravenimage is right that Nightmare will usually be a target, so he should usually be held back, and brought in late-game. Leviathans are also good with the change to their gun, as a boosted P+S 15 against 'jacks can actually do some damage, and the range is very nice. A Levi sitting still can reliably hit a Cygnar heavy, and get two shots with boosted damage rolls if it has 3 focus.

As for units, gravenimage covered them pretty well. I'd like to suggest Blackbane's Raiders and Black Ogryn myself. The incorporeal ability on the raiders is HUGE, though it's hard to grasp how effective they are until you've played with them. Moving through other models on the charge means you can reach infantry models you otherwise wouldn't, and the reanimation ability means you can place new raiders in other model's back arcs and screw up movement next turn. Black Ogryn are good because they provide a durable, reliable unit for Cryx, which isn't really available from any other unit.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, now that I see your other post:

Seether and Deathjack are very good. You might consider using them to start with, and get Nightmare later once you have some experience; he's certainly a bit harder to use correctly.

Bane Thralls are actually more of an anti-jack unit, although they can hold up well against infantry, especially medium based ones. MAT 6 isn't the best, but it will hit jacks, and an effective P+S 13 with weapon master means they'll do some serious damage on the charge. McThralls however, are a cheaper unit that can do much the same thing with their combo strike. So they aren't a bad investment.

Denny and Gaspy are both pretty good with 'jacks. 7 focus means they can boost them when need be, and their spells help out quite a bit. Crippling Grasp makes it easier for jacks to deal damage, and Venom benefits a lot from arc nodes. Gaspy's Scything Touch works well with any heavy, and having an arc node to use Hellfire through is always useful.

Casters to stay away from in the beginning: The Coven and Mortenebra. The Coven doesn't leave a lot of room for error, because of their low stat-lines, and they lose their effectiveness as you lose 'jacks, which is not so with other casters. Mortenebra requires a lot of planning to use correctly. I usually plan out my entire turn with her before I make a move, and one mistake can throw everything off.

Can I just say how impressed I am already by the Warmachine (and possibly Cryxian? ) community? Pretty much instant responses, all very detailed and helpful! Thanks for the pointers all!

i'm at work at the mo, so having to snatch time, but will make a more detailed reponse later. Definately think Deathjack is going up in my estimation - maybe Bane Thralls too, need to look at the models again.

Is there anything I should be avoiding as a new, revised model is on the horizon? To be fair, that doesn't seem to be PP style tho...!

Bane Thralls are the ones with the spiky backs and axes.

Well, they toned down some stuff, but I'm not sure what all was toned down with CRyx.

The biggest cry was the upcosting of Cryx's bonejacks.

I think actually it's a dakka thing, though in my experience cryx players are the least nerfy and most open about tactics. Glad to be of assist - I agree with the others, mc thralls are awesome and fair point on the reavers, I just hate the models. 1 other things to remember with cryx: spray/blast templates are your friend, especially against things you can't see. There's nothing to stop you running up a chicken close then, once it's taken a beating (which it will) target it with blast/spray if near an otherwise untouchable unit.

Well, I went for it! Somewhat against my better judgement, I decided to go for the big spend and got the following:

Deathjack
Helljack
Mechanithrall unit
2x Mechanithrall blisters
Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls
Seether
Skarlock Thrall
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist

And for my housemate:
Cygnar Heavy Warjack
Cygnar Journeyman Warcaster

Total: £119.97 delivered insured and signed for! Woo! Not too bad I thought.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys, its been immensely helpful. I've spent the last hour agonizing over whether or not to get the bane thralls unit, but decided I would wait for the next sale and get this lot painted up first. They are an awesome unit tho!

All the talk here has totally got me into the game - I've spent half the night setting up lists on iBodger...! Quite like:

pDenny
2x Deathrippers
Seether
Slayer
Skarlock
McThralls(6)
Necrosurgeon
=30pts

OR

pDenny
2x Deathrippers
Deathjack
Skarlock
2x 6 McThralls
Necrosurgeon
=30pts

working on others and will post as I create them. I'll stick my models up this week as I get some more paint on them.

Cant wait for all the undead awesome that will follow!

Cheers again!

Hiya,
Glad to help. Looking good, but I would choose a full strength McUnit over the necro. You want to maximise their hitting power; think about it this way, with a necro at 30 pts you're basically playing reactively, not proactively. Warmachine (and at the risk of getting flamed to bits here) is a much more aggressive game than WH40k, or at least as a Cryx player it is (Cygnar, for instance, can play the defensive game). What I mean by that is that you cannot afford to let your enemy come to you, in my experience. It's slightly counter-intuitive as Cryx can be quite flimsy; but, you want to get stuck in. Grasp and 10 Mcs is really very nasty indeed and, whilst you will inevitably lose some, waiting for the necro will slow you down. I'm not saying don't play necros - as I've said, I think they're great - but I would use hold them back for larger games. I would try your first list (deathjack awesome but takes some getting used to) with 10 MCs and see how it goes.

And as a random aside on the subject of building models from bits - I have a number of necron flayed one scrap thralls which are very tasty indeed, and my soul hunters also have some bits incorporated into them. So, yeah experiment: zombies+empire = great revenant pirates (as indeed was hijacked by a WD, I believe).