Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all, I love the big German cats, and want to run a Schwere SS-PztAbt list from the Villars Bocage book (also known to myself and my friends as The Tank Book, or Put It Down Fraser). Does anyone have any advice regarding building a list? I was thinking of the following for 2k points to fight my friends combined British 1k rifle and 1k tank company armies. I have enough models to field anything from the list as I went a bit mad over Christmas getting lots and lots of tanks, halftracks and quads.

Company HQ
Tiger 1 E
[250]

Schwere SS Panzer Platoon
2 Tiger 1 E
[480]

Schwere SS Panzer Platoon
2 Tiger 1 E
[480]

SS-Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon
3 Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm)
[150]

Armoured SS-Scout Platoon
6 Scout Squads
[385]

Motorized SS-Scout Platoon
3 Scout Squads
[200]

[1945] (ha)

Can I ask what is up with FOW lists? I dont own the game.

Are vehicles 1 to 1 in scale? Does each model represent one real vehicle?

I ask as the AA platoon in the 4th (light) company of an SS Heavy Tank Battalion had 3 vehicles, same as on your list.

But a Tiger platoon had four Tigers per platoon not two.



Oh and its Villers-Bocage... Not Villars. Pedantic I know, but having visted the town four times, I get anal about it.

As for advice on running Tigers... Well make sure you have plenty of petrol and a good Werkstatte Kompanie.

Big P wrote:Can I ask what is up with FOW lists? I dont own the game.

Are vehicles 1 to 1 in scale? Does each model represent one real vehicle?

I ask as the AA platoon in the 4th (light) company of an SS Heavy Tank Battalion had 3 vehicles, same as on your list.

But a Tiger platoon had four Tigers per platoon not two.


Oh and its Villers-Bocage...

Yeah they are 1 to 1, eg the AA Platoon is 3 vehicles. The Tiger Platoons are just two each because they are 240 points each and obviously in a 2000 point list that adds up fast. I actually have a full company of Tigers and the light company, so I have a lot of miniatures to choose from. This is just me trying to make a 2k list.

I've visited the town before, they have loads of really nice cake shops. Om nom nom. Good memories

Did you notice the Tiger tanks drive wheels used as flower pots in Villers-Bocage?

Big P wrote:Are vehicles 1 to 1 in scale? Does each model represent one real vehicle?

I ask as the AA platoon in the 4th (light) company of an SS Heavy Tank Battalion had 3 vehicles, same as on your list.

But a Tiger platoon had four Tigers per platoon not two.

They are 1 to 1. The Tiger is the toughest tank in the game as far as I can tell, and it really does cost so much you could field a pile of Shermans for the same point value. besides having the best armor I've seen in the game they get a bunch of advantageous rules including a special 'Tiger Ace' rule that gives them 1 of 5 special rules per game, possibly 2 of 5... They may get better at dealing with rough terrain, firing on the move, or similar.

The only tank scarier would be if they added rules for a time-rifted Abrahms.

Oh... I dunno.

JSU-152 is pretty scary... They did call it the 'Big Cat Killer' after all.

Interesting they have a special rule for firing on the move. Thats was virtually impossible to do during WW2. The chance of ever hitting anything while moving was virtually zero.

The only account I have seen of anyone managing to score a hit while moving with a tanks main gun was Balthazar Voll.

Even the gyro-stabilizer on the Sherman was only used as a stable viewing port rather than for firing on the move.


But yes... You always need buckets of Shermies to play with Tiggers.

Big P, Check out the flames of war website at flamesofwar.com, then Hobby/Briefings (Here) to see some actual FoW lists if you want a clearer idea of how they are set up. They are generally historical but at the end of the day they are trying to make a WW2 themed game instead of a historical game so sometimes accuracy suffers for the sake of enjoyment (the biggest gripe is usually that heavy artillery is deployed on the same battlefield instead of miles away).

Fraser, that looks like a good list and would be very fun to paint, but it does look rather vulnerable to massed infantry armies equipped with lots of mortars to smoke you out, or massed artillery strikes. The main weakness comes from your lack of infantry - a massed infantry or artillery army would be able to shift you from objectives pretty quickly. I'd recommend getting at least one, ideally two platoons of infantry in place of one tiger to help sit on objectives and dig in.

Big P wrote:Oh... I dunno.

JSU-152 is pretty scary... They did call it the 'Big Cat Killer' after all.

Interesting they have a special rule for firing on the move. Thats was virtually impossible to do during WW2. The chance of ever hitting anything while moving was virtually zero.

The only account I have seen of anyone managing to score a hit while moving with a tanks main gun was Balthazar Voll.

Even the gyro-stabilizer on the Sherman was only used as a stable viewing port rather than for firing on the move.


But yes... You always need buckets of Shermies to play with Tiggers.

My perception (I have the rule book and a couple big army list books for reading material for FoW) is that a 'turn' is actually a relatively long slice of time. I don't remember seeing it explicitly defined, so I'm going with the Heavy gear Blitz official definition that a turn is 'just long enough for everything that needs to happen in it to happen' as a turn in FoW may see airstrikes initiated and happen, artilelry sets up and fires bombardments, as well as units moving and striking.

Most tanks can fire on the move, but very poorly. The American tanks with stabilizers are better, but still fire better if stopped. The German Tiger Ace skill still isn't quite as good as it would be on a tank with a stabilizer, I think, but I'm far from an expert on the FoW rules. They're not the easiest to read in my opinion. I think the rules can be visualized as tanks doing quick stops to fire and/or 'suppression fire' stuff, but that may just be my interpretation.

I think the rules are written as slightly dumbed-down historically for playability. Historically authentic army lists are possible, but not required, as you might also see American forces that are veterans from Italy fighting Canadians.

legoburner wrote:Big P, Check out the flames of war website at flamesofwar.com, then Hobby/Briefings (Here) to see some actual FoW lists if you want a clearer idea of how they are set up. They are generally historical but at the end of the day they are trying to make a WW2 themed game instead of a historical game so sometimes accuracy suffers for the sake of enjoyment (the biggest gripe is usually that heavy artillery is deployed on the same battlefield instead of miles away).

Fraser, that looks like a good list and would be very fun to paint, but it does look rather vulnerable to massed infantry armies equipped with lots of mortars to smoke you out, or massed artillery strikes. The main weakness comes from your lack of infantry - a massed infantry or artillery army would be able to shift you from objectives pretty quickly. I'd recommend getting at least one, ideally two platoons of infantry in place of one tiger to help sit on objectives and dig in.

I took the minimum amount of Tigers you can take in a Schwere SS PzAbt then maxed out on availiable infantry <_<

Maybe I should take more Tigers

oops yeah my mistake For some reason I had mis-read your SS scout platoons as armour. Nevermind, your list is pretty balanced yes. Very mobile, AA protection and a paint to kill all that armour, should be good fun!

well since no one really answered the post

you have 5 platoons
2 Tiger and 3 small inf/AA - to win i just take out the 3 weak platoons.

also in Late war lots of stuff that can kill the Tiger.

And you are paying SS (fearless) points for 2 tank platoons that will not ever take a check as with 2 tanks loss of 1 is not a test.

Do Late War tigers have the 'Unreliable' rule? I believe they do in Mid War and it looks like that rule could screw things up.

I dont have the books to hand, but late war Tigers are not unreliable, but King Tigers are if I remember correctly.

I guess it's kind of a 'newest model' issue?

It seems like it could be a problem, although admittedly it is going to be something of an edge case... But I know how often "only on a 1" situations seem to occur in WH40k...

Many Tiger players swear by a platoon of three nebelwerfers.

The Tiger 1 is a fine tank in Flames of War capable of taking on all types of foe, it suffers against Soviet IS tanks and the (broken) Churchill crocodile.

If you really must have the best arms and armour then there is a King Tiger list.

Just out of curiosity, why is the Churchill crocodile considered broken?

Balance wrote:Just out of curiosity, why is the Churchill crocodile considered broken?

It's immune to all non 'long 88' (and similar) fire from the front and has a flame thrower in the hull that ignores all the usual weaknesses of flame throwers thanks to the trailer and only costs 133 points (400 for three). Bear in mind that a StuG 3 G is 95 points.

Flame Throwers are the bane of, well, everything. Flame throwers are super weapons in FoW, limited only by their short range. which is circumnavigated by being able to move at the double 16" a turn in turns that they do not fire.

Are all flamethrowers one-shot weapons? I seem to remember that infantry, at least, automatically go to the rear once they fire.

Yep, tanks don't go to the rear though.