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First off, sorry for yet an other one of these posts asking questions. I know they can get annoying after a while so thanks ahead of time for having some patience.

Let me start with a quick background. My group only started into War Gaming a little over a year ago with 40k and we still have fun with it. We try to keep things in a casual gaming mood and that is working out alright for the time being. But with every new release it seems like they punish those that do "outside the box" armies and pushes a small few "builds" in armies. Hopefully that makes some sense as it is kinda hard to explain. Most of our group enjoy games where there is a mix of tanks and infantry (more infantry focused than tanks really), but sometimes in 40k it seems like there are more tanks than soldiers on the field.

We came across AT-43 and took great notice on a few things. Pre-painted is very nice, especially since we don't have any experience in painting really so our paint jobs are fairly poor. Plus most of us are busy with other activities to really sit down and paint. Also the model range is pretty unique, of course coming from the Space Marine heavy 40k I'm not really how well that goes. I downloaded a few of the rule books and such from the official site and read through them a few times. But came up with a few general issues and concerns that I'm hoping you all could help me with...

1> What is a good sized gaming table for AT-43?
Currently we have three 6x4 tables setup for 40k here. I also have a 3.5 foot by 3.5 foot table I'm planning on using for Malifaux. Now I been poking around and can't really find a general answer for a good table size. Seems 4x2 through 4x4 are the best answers but for brand new starters into AT-43, what would you all recommend?

2> How much terrain?
I know AT-43 seems to be heavy terrain but how much is ideal. Now we like city fighting so heavy terrain won't ruin anything for us. But 40k is suggested around 25% of the board be covered in terrain, should I be looking at like 50% for AT-43?

3> Is there are armies or sub-factions that I should watch out for being unbalanced? Whether it be under or over powered?
I can't say what armies are being looked at by others. I'm mainly looking out ONI or Red Blokk myself. In 40k, there is a noticeable difference in power levels between certain armies (Compare Necrons to Space Wolves for example), while it doesn't mean Necrons will always lose there is a noticeable different that the Space Wolves have a clear advantage. Are the armies fairly balanced or are certain ones lacking or booming? Are the 3 factions within each army fairly balanced? Are factions that can do all tank armies a bit too powerful?

4> Is every unit in an army useful in some way and somewhat balanced to fit in somewhere? Or are there units that are total junk and have no place?
Chaos Spawn, Sisters Repentia, Storm Guardians, Tau Ethereals, etc. So many units that just don't meet the cut because they either cost much and/or have bad rules to them. Are there stuff like this too in AT-43?

Then finally 4 questions for starter sets...
5> Is the tactical manual in the starter sets the army book?
Each of the starter boxes for the armies that have them has listed a Tactical manual. Is this the Army book or just a quick start sheet?

6> I noticed that UNA, Karmens, and Therians don't have starter sets, are they coming out soon or not at all?
I read somewhere that in May they are releasing the rest of the box sets for the remaining 3 armies, are truth in this?

7> Are the starter sets fairly balanced to each other?
Now we heard that the 3 star vehicle is a bit powerful at the starter level size of the game, but are the rest of the stuff fairly balanced?

8> Any recommendations to other stuff to get along side the starter boxes?
We plan on picking up an additional box or two after we learn the game a bit with the starter boxes, any suggestions for what to pick up? (more infantry, more tanks, etc?)


***Edit: Forgot one question, how well does AT-43 work with multiple players? Warhammer doesn't really do well in my opinion (especially with 3 way or 4 way battles), is AT-43 any better in this regard?

SirRouga wrote:1> What is a good sized gaming table for AT-43?
Currently we have three 6x4 tables setup for 40k here. I also have a 3.5 foot by 3.5 foot table I'm planning on using for Malifaux. Now I been poking around and can't really find a general answer for a good table size. Seems 4x2 through 4x4 are the best answers but for brand new starters into AT-43, what would you all recommend?

Dunno in foot and inches, but I play in a 180 cm *120cm, fairly good size, For me thats the perfect size

SirRouga wrote:
2> How much terrain?
I know AT-43 seems to be heavy terrain but how much is ideal. Now we like city fighting so heavy terrain won't ruin anything for us. But 40k is suggested around 25% of the board be covered in terrain, should I be looking at like 50% for AT-43?

There are no given rules in the book, but if you can draw line of sight from one corner to the opposite corner of the board, and the striders do not have ANY place to hide, then it is to few cover, I would say that at least 50%

SirRouga wrote:
3> Is there are armies or sub-factions that I should watch out for being unbalanced? Whether it be under or over powered?
I can't say what armies are being looked at by others. I'm mainly looking out ONI or Red Blokk myself. In 40k, there is a noticeable difference in power levels between certain armies (Compare Necrons to Space Wolves for example), while it doesn't mean Necrons will always lose there is a noticeable different that the Space Wolves have a clear advantage. Are the armies fairly balanced or are certain ones lacking or booming? Are the 3 factions within each army fairly balanced? Are factions that can do all tank armies a bit too powerful?

Each mind is a world, of the "original 4 races" Therians, UNA, Red BLok KArmans, I think all are fairly balanced, there are builds and a few units here and there that area headache, but in my opinion there are no so significant diadvantages. Cogs and ONI raise up the level a bit, they are a bit tougher in general but by no means unbeatable. Personally I play Red BLok, and while very fun and nice to play they cannot out-shoot any other army for example

SirRouga wrote:
4> Is every unit in an army useful in some way and somewhat balanced to fit in somewhere? Or are there units that are total junk and have no place?
Chaos Spawn, Sisters Repentia, Storm Guardians, Tau Ethereals, etc. So many units that just don't meet the cut because they either cost much and/or have bad rules to them. Are there stuff like this too in AT-43?

While i dont think that there are 100% useless units, there are some which are only usable in ceratin situations or when certain terrain features appear (like drop points), and some armies have bread and butter units that are very good for the price.... Since I am red Blok player my favourite are Dragonov kommandos, Sierps and Hussar for as a Therian player I prefer Assault Golems over Storm Golems and Bane Goliathsover the other Goliaths, My favourite of the Cogs are the Warmonger and hunters, but since the army is new well, i have not yet proxied everything , later I can make a roundup of other units

SirRouga wrote:
Then finally 4 questions for starter sets...
5> Is the tactical manual in the starter sets the army book?
Each of the starter boxes for the armies that have them has listed a Tactical manual. Is this the Army book or just a quick start sheet?

Quick start. no complete rules or fluff

SirRouga wrote:
6> I noticed that UNA, Karmens, and Therians don't have starter sets, are they coming out soon or not at all?
I read somewhere that in May they are releasing the rest of the box sets for the remaining 3 armies, are truth in this?

Not yet, Karmans will come in arround 2 months, i think UNA and Krygs are the next somewhere in September and Therians in an unknown when at the moment

SirRouga wrote:
7> Are the starter sets fairly balanced to each other?
Now we heard that the 3 star vehicle is a bit powerful at the starter level size of the game, but are the rest of the stuff fairly balanced?

Of the released Army boxes, most of them are balanced within each other, but not balanced against someone with a full collection.

SirRouga wrote:
8> Any recommendations to other stuff to get along side the starter boxes?
We plan on picking up an additional box or two after we learn the game a bit with the starter boxes, any suggestions for what to pick up? (more infantry, more tanks, etc?)

Rulebook, Armz book for each army special rules, and Frostbite expands some other rules and units. Each army book of the original factions (UNA, Therians, Red Blok and Karmans) have 4 platoons where to form your army, they can be infantry-heavy, tank-heavy or balanced, so it is up to you how you want your amry to be, but mind you, you will allways need both to make a patoon. In frostbit, some more units for the original 4 are added. For Cogs and ONI everything is on the Army books, personlally I have all of them as the explanation of the special rules is sometimes necessary

SirRouga wrote:
***Edit: Forgot one question, how well does AT-43 work with multiple players? Warhammer doesn't really do well in my opinion (especially with 3 way or 4 way battles), is AT-43 any better in this regard?

SirRouga wrote:
1> What is a good sized gaming table for AT-43?

This depends on the size of your army. There is no set rule.

SirRouga wrote:
2> How much terrain?
I know AT-43 seems to be heavy terrain but how much is ideal. Now we like city fighting so heavy terrain won't ruin anything for us. But 40k is suggested around 25% of the board be covered in terrain, should I be looking at like 50% for AT-43?

At-43 is a game designed for objectives. There are already 2 campaigns and many scenarios. If you want to make your own for "kill & destory", the amount of terrains will likely favor certain armies over another. For example, you don't want to field Red Bloks on an open field.

SirRouga wrote:
3> Is there are armies or sub-factions that I should watch out for being unbalanced? Whether it be under or over powered?
I can't say what armies are being looked at by others. I'm mainly looking out ONI or Red Blokk myself. In 40k, there is a noticeable difference in power levels between certain armies (Compare Necrons to Space Wolves for example), while it doesn't mean Necrons will always lose there is a noticeable different that the Space Wolves have a clear advantage. Are the armies fairly balanced or are certain ones lacking or booming? Are the 3 factions within each army fairly balanced? Are factions that can do all tank armies a bit too powerful?

I don't believe that there is an all tank armies in AT-43. As mentioned before, armies are fairly balanced if you play for objectives. With a few exceptions, tanks (or striders) cannot control objectives. You may win the battle but lose the war. The opinions regarding which army is stronger changes over time with new update and new fractions. It also depends what size of the army you are playing. Karmans, for example, will do less well at 2k or less.

SirRouga wrote:
4> Is every unit in an army useful in some way and somewhat balanced to fit in somewhere? Or are there units that are total junk and have no place? Are there stuff like this too in AT-43?

Some are definitely more useful than others but I wouldn't call them junks. These are more situational specific.

SirRouga wrote:
I noticed that UNA, Karmens, and Therians don't have starter sets, are they coming out soon or not at all? I read somewhere that in May they are releasing the rest of the box sets for the remaining 3 armies, are truth in this?

The plan is that all fractions will have a starter set.

SirRouga wrote:
Now we heard that the 3 star vehicle is a bit powerful at the starter level size of the game, but are the rest of the stuff fairly balanced?

The problem is that starter set is 2000 points. At that level, a 3 star strider will be difficult to encounter unless you field a 3 star strider as well. This is why all starter sets will have a 3 star strider. At higher points, it should not be an issue.

SirRouga wrote:
Any recommendations to other stuff to get along side the starter boxes?

It depends on what fraction you like to play. I would post this question at Rackham's official forum on AT-43? You need to ask the right questions to the right persons to get the right responses. Dakka is not the place for it.

Well I figured I ask here first since I already had an account and saw the section here. Still gave me a few things to think about so thanks!

SirRouga wrote:First off, sorry for yet an other one of these posts asking questions. I know they can get annoying after a while so thanks ahead of time for having some patience.

There have not been too many AT-43 threads, twernty minutes read back a few pages will tell you all you need to know.

SirRouga wrote:
1. What is a good sized gaming table for AT-43?

Officially, two playmats (included in the army and Damocles boxsets) linked together.
However I would go with at least 4x4.

SirRouga wrote:
Currently we have three 6x4 tables setup for 40k here. I also have a 3.5 foot by 3.5 foot table I'm planning on using for Malifaux. Now I been poking around and can't really find a general answer for a good table size. Seems 4x2 through 4x4 are the best answers but for brand new starters into AT-43, what would you all recommend?

Both your table sizes are fine the 1 meter square board you have will do for 2000pt games, for bigger games use 4x4 or 6x4.

SirRouga wrote:
2. How much terrain?
I know AT-43 seems to be heavy terrain but how much is ideal. Now we like city fighting so heavy terrain won't ruin anything for us. But 40k is suggested around 25% of the board be covered in terrain, should I be looking at like 50% for AT-43?

AT-43 needs terrain. I would go with a quater to a third of the total board surface cover with approx one item per square foot density average.

SirRouga wrote:
3. Is there are armies or sub-factions that I should watch out for being unbalanced? Whether it be under or over powered?

Red Blok suffer with larger play areas because their ranging sucks unless you provide plenty of LOS blocking. Rackham playtested this game for the playmats provided and this army in particular suffers on a 6x4.
Some Cog rules a a little unfair, but nothing too drastic. The only truly broken unit in the game is Babylon Zero.

SirRouga wrote:
4. Is every unit in an army useful in some way and somewhat balanced to fit in somewhere? Or are there units that are total junk and have no place?

Yes and No. Few units are as badly thought out at those in some 40K armies however some units are underperforming. Some units are slightly more expensive than near identicle superior units or lack special abilities given to superior units as 'compensation'. Best example of that is the Nakovalny/Sierp, the latter is the same price and has a much better gun, yet also has a very nice special advantage as compensation for not having the original gun.
All the units are useful, but some have been thoughtlessly point costed.

SirRouga wrote:
Chaos Spawn, Sisters Repentia, Storm Guardians, Tau Ethereals, etc. So many units that just don't meet the cut because they either cost much and/or have bad rules to them. Are there stuff like this too in AT-43?

Because AT-43 has a lot of unit duplication some direct comparisons can be made. By and large each unit type (* to ***, infantry and vehicle) is useful, however there are some inbalances within each bracket.

Units not to bother with:
Wing Troopers (except sniper teams), Yeti, Thunder Trike, Thunder Buggy

Units markedly inferior to near identical units in the same list, but still usable:
Nakovalny, Spetnaz Kolossus, RPG Soldaty

Units markedly superior to similarly costed variant units from the same list:
Steel TacArms, Bane Goliaths, Kaptars, Jungle Trike, Alpha Zombie TacArms

SirRouga wrote:
6. I noticed that UNA, Karmens, and Therians don't have starter sets, are they coming out soon or not at all?
I read somewhere that in May they are releasing the rest of the box sets for the remaining 3 armies, are truth in this?

Dont trust Rackham release schedules you can usually add 2d3 months to a release date so: Karmans fairly soon, UNA this year and Therians TBA.

SirRouga wrote:
7. Are the starter sets fairly balanced to each other?
Now we heard that the 3 star vehicle is a bit powerful at the starter level size of the game, but are the rest of the stuff fairly balanced?

By and large yes.

SirRouga wrote:
8. Any recommendations to other stuff to get along side the starter boxes?
We plan on picking up an additional box or two after we learn the game a bit with the starter boxes, any suggestions for what to pick up? (more infantry, more tanks, etc?)

Go top minitures market and pick up whatever you can afford. Don't be ashamed to just buy multiple Army boxes instead though.

SirRouga wrote:
***Edit: Forgot one question, how well does AT-43 work with multiple players? Warhammer doesn't really do well in my opinion (especially with 3 way or 4 way battles), is AT-43 any better in this regard?

Works very well, so long as you wo9rk out priority properly and remember the turn order. This can be a little confusing if players pass on their turn, but nothing smart and attentive gamers cannot handle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wildger wrote:
I don't believe that there is an all tank armies in AT-43. As mentioned before, armies are fairly balanced if you play for objectives. With a few exceptions, tanks (or striders) cannot control objectives. You may win the battle but lose the war. The opinions regarding which army is stronger changes over time with new update and new fractions. It also depends what size of the army you are playing. Karmans, for example, will do less well at 2k or less.

ONI R&D can field all tank armies, technically. You still need some infantry though.

wildger wrote:
It depends on what fraction you like to play. I would post this question at Rackham's official forum on AT-43? You need to ask the right questions to the right persons to get the right responses. Dakka is not the place for it.

You get a deeper coverage being a specialist forum, but the forums are very fanboi-ish and intolerant of critique. I would lurk there and post here.