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Hi Guys (and maybe gall... What, it could happen ),

Went up against trolls again yesterday. This time a grim angus list with a heavy madrak Aproach. It had:
Grim
- impaler
- impaler
- pyretroll
max champs
min champs
krielstonebearer and scribes
champ hero
fell caller

The list was not that special IMHO, but it did give me a big problem. I could not get rid of the though arm 20 models... At one point I charged a carnivean into combat with an assault. he sprayed and did some damage to 2 champs, but only knocked down 1 of the 2. he also hit 1 of the 2 krielstone bearers and that one also got knockled down. I ended up killing only 2 champs with the initial attacks and knocking 1 down after seeing him make his thoughroll 3 times...

How can I get better at taking out trolls?? I can see using a Scythean in the list would help, but are there other ways?? preferably with a list close to this (which is what I was using):

Vayl
- Shredder
- Shredder
- Shredder
- Carnivean
- Carnivean
- Protector
Max Warmongers

The only things I could think of where the scythean, dropping a shredder and taking a shepperd and the warmonger. that and not forgetting to keep 2 or 3 fury on her for crucial times...

I've been playing trolls for aboot a year and that list is kinda weird.

Now if he used Borka and a couple of heavies, then yeah I could understand how you'd get beat, but even then, he shoudn't have the power to take out the amount of beasts you have.

First of all, always charge your carniveans into the champs to create a hole for assassination runs. I've seen Carniveans tear through champs with ease. And you have two - should be some dead champs.

You need a shepherd, it is an auto take for most Legion armies.

Also, your choice of Warlock. I'm not a fan of Vayl personally, there are better options for beast casters in legion. Try Absylonia (who is just disgusting in mkII), either Thagrosh (Epic one is insane with beasts), PLylyth (Who got a huge upgrade in mkII, when she didn't need one lol).

I haven't seen Scytheans rules, but have been told it has Thresher. I'd drop a Carni for it, if it is as good and has Thresher.

Did you just have bad dice rolls or did your opponent role like a god, because his army list, for lack of a better term is piss poor.

EDIT - Just read up on Absylonia - screw Vayl, she is a million times better with beasts.

It doesn't have Thresher. It has Chain Attack: Blood Bath and the Take Down animus.

The Take Down Animus is the real Troll Killer (ignores Tough)

Sick!!!

Woah - Scythean is 2 pts cheaper than Carni, hits harder, has a chain attack, the same carni stats and a sick animus.

TWO POINTS CHEAPER!!!



EDIT - Ok it doesn't hit harder (only 3 pts of dmg in it over over extra attacks against a heavy), but man it goes well with Carni.

I've run a somewhat similar Grim list in Mk I (honestly, I haven't played any Mk II games yet). I was running something like:
Grim
Impaler
Axer
Pyre Troll
Champs
Burrowers
Fell Caller
Alten

Champs are deadhard, and don't need help. Although the FC and Grim both have some Pathfinder goodness for them.

The best tactic is just to go after Grim and try for the assassination. Which, can be tough. He's got good armor and defense, and can use cover well.

You need a shepherd in the list. I'd look to add a second unit - maybe Striders, since they need little support and add a ranged element. Adding swordsmen to use as a bodyguard is an option too. Running Thagrosh would help too. You have a fragile warlock, with no one that can really stay back and help protect her, with a bunch of melee-focused warbeasts.

Also, it sounds like you tried to just run up the field and have the carnies eat some champs. That's playing right into a troll army's hand. You need to use your superior speed to outflank and make them maneuver. All your stuff is faster, so you should be able to out maneuver him, ignore part of his army, and use all of yours to crush what you're facing.

radiohazard wrote:Sick!!!

Woah - Scythean is 2 pts cheaper than Carni, hits harder, has a chain attack, the same carni stats and a sick animus.

TWO POINTS CHEAPER!!!



EDIT - Ok it doesn't hit harder (only 3 pts of dmg in it over over extra attacks against a heavy), but man it goes well with Carni.

And that's what I like. It supplements the Carnivean, but it doesn't replace it necessarily.

I did not run up and engage. I tried to take out the flanks and failed. In the end I did kill 5 champs, but the other three where on the other flank. The champs did not kill the carniveans, but did manage to wound them badly with their many attacks.

I had some bad rolls and he rolled consistintly over average. I used 2 shredders to lock down the champs movement, but could not prevent them engaging my warmongers and finishing all but 1 of.

I know I made some mistakes, but still it looked as if the list was not dent.

As for protection for vayl, I had a protector. he protects. it stayed back with vayl and prevented charges. it is just that I missed a charge in the end and vayl was in a vulnerable position to be attacked by an impaler and Grim (who debuffed her as well...)

as for dead champs, I could only charge the unit of 5 and get 3 in contact with the carnivean. he then rolled though 3 times in a row for 1 of them. That is why he could attack my carnivean so succesfully (even though I had my animus up.) The other carni killed an impaler and a Pyre troll. I then did not have any options to get at grim, as he blocked all paths and I did not have any shooting capacity.

Shepperds I use with abby and rhyas (have 2) but with Vayl I wanted to try another approach. I wanted to use no shepperds and have vayl (with Fury 8) pull all the fury needed. Because the rabid shredders do the same damage as the frenzying shredders I could let them frenzy without worry, so I only needed to take fury of the carniveans and sometimes the protector.

Maybe I just have to play the list a bit more too...

I think I will just give in and start using a scythean and carnivean in my beasty lists. Makes for some varying lists too...

thanx so far...