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I just recently finished painting my first 15 point battlegroup and have had a few games with it, a lucky win against Cygnar (Guy with the double guns) and a brutal defeat against Scyrah (Guy with two guns/blades). As you can tell I'm pretty green. This is my current 15 point list.

pKreoss
Crusader
Revenger
Repenter
Choir of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth

So far, I really hate this list. Too many 'jacks, when all I want to be doing is casting spells and getting into combat. But so far in the two games I've played my opponents have skirted around me, one flanking me with that Scyrah Merc chic and basically ending the game turn three because I couldn't protect Kreoss at that moment. Out of the 'jacks I have Revenger has been by far the best. So shuffling through my cards I came up with this new list to play.

Hierarch Severius
Hierophant
Revenger
Vassal of Menoth
Temple Flameguard w/ Officer and Standard
Exemplar Errants

I just like the wider control of Severius and his Reign of fire being able to be shot through arch nodes. Flameguard that don't block LOS and cause Terror (even though I fully don't understand what that does) seems very good to me with Exemplars being able to shoot over them with Awareness up, along with Exemplar Errants being able to huddle up with the Flameguard to stay alive (I don't know if this is a good idea, keeping my non-terror causing Errants alive instead of my terror causing Flameguard). Hierophant seems like a no brainer with Severius, casting Awareness for 2 instead of 3 is pretty awesome. The Vassal is a sort of "well I like vassal and already have one" type of include at this point. He can shoot and make a pretty awesome turn with Revenger. But if the Revenger goes down he's stuck just shooting until he gets shot in the face and dies, but I'm not certain if that is a good idea altogether even though I can protect my Revenger with Holy Ward.

Also- it's been ages since I've been back on Dakka. But I thought of you guys first <3

Oh my God! Typeline is back!

Typeline wrote:
Hierarch Severius
Hierophant
Revenger
Vassal of Menoth
Temple Flameguard w/ Officer and Standard
Exemplar Errants

I just like the wider control of Severius and his Reign of fire being able to be shot through arch nodes. Flameguard that don't block LOS and cause Terror (even though I fully don't understand what that does) seems very good to me with Exemplars being able to shoot over them with Awareness up, along with Exemplar Errants being able to huddle up with the Flameguard to stay alive (I don't know if this is a good idea, keeping my non-terror causing Errants alive instead of my terror causing Flameguard). Hierophant seems like a no brainer with Severius, casting Awareness for 2 instead of 3 is pretty awesome. The Vassal is a sort of "well I like vassal and already have one" type of include at this point. He can shoot and make a pretty awesome turn with Revenger. But if the Revenger goes down he's stuck just shooting until he gets shot in the face and dies, but I'm not certain if that is a good idea altogether even though I can protect my Revenger with Holy Ward.

Also- it's been ages since I've been back on Dakka. But I thought of you guys first <3

How many TFGs and Exemplar Errants are in those units? You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, but you don't want to spread your forces too thin either. IMO, the Officer and Standard are better on a large unit.

Revengers are nice, but if you're playing Sevvy (normal or epic), Blessing of Vengeance is a better choice, as he boosts the power of Sevvy's spells when used as a channeler. YMMV.

I would highly recommend taking at least one heavy 'jack. Crusaders are cheap and can hit pretty damn hard, and get an open fist. Vanquishers are pretty nice too if you want to throw some pie-plates up the table and can hold their own in melee.

Take my bit of advice lightly, because I'm still fairly new to this as well. Good to see you here again.

Well howdy there Cheese! Nice to be back.

Yeah, all my units are at min- but this is just a 15 point primer for now. Blessing of Vengeance seems so much better, but starting out in lower points I think Revenger will do all right until I can get the upgrade. This force is almost what I'd be doing at 25 points too. The only changes being Max units and Blessing of Vengeance instead of Revenger and four points to work with. I'd probably buy some solos or work in a Redeemer (Because I like the idea of the super long range pie plates).

Are you going to use the rules for a theme list at larger point levels? You get some nice bonuses, and eSevvy can take both Flameguard and Exemplar units, IIRC. I think Blessing of Vengeance is also mandatory in that list, but stronger channellers are always a good thing.

Vanquishers are very nice.
Thresher AND a Continuous Anything Pieplate...yes please.

They are a great way to deter stealth units moving too boldly toward your lines.
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Revenger: arc node is good while the Bond is nice if a big hit drops on the SINGLE arc node. For a Caster like eSevvy, that single arc node can be a blessing with the bond, but a curse afterwards. He's not a forward dude and the single arc node is only one vector for getting spells in...so that could be something to keep in mind.

The Vassal is nice to Enliven the Revenger so that it gets to the enemy faster when taking light hits (though keep in mind eSevvy's control area), while the Bond is for the big hits.

TFG are a nice area denial and tarpit (killy with the Fire).
While errants are a great flexible unit, able to threaten solos of all kinds and can do some serious damage in combat.

eSevvy and Hierophant: Saving focus is good w/ the Hierophant, while eSevvy himself is pretty epic indeed.
His feat can be used to disrupt shield wall/open charge lanes/etc.
IMO always take a shot with Reign of Fire and don't forget Admonisher combo with it.

Hex is nice if you really need to purge the enemy of a buff, but it's kind of expensive as an offensive spell.

Rebuke/Influence/(and feat really) really pushes eSevvy to a more 'control' Warcaster. He punishes enemy infantry.

Holy Ward is nice for the TFG if they run first turn.

Creator's Wrath: eSevvy is not really a combat brawler... offensively, I guess this makes him compitent to get those last couple boxes, but it's not something to rely on.

Awareness is really nice. It allows errants to see past stuff to shoot at it or charge.

Now it's only 15 points, so you can't have everything you'd want, though it is missing something of a big punch. The Errants are pretty killy, but they have to get there and their hybrid roles mean an oppurtunity cost. In addition, I'm not sure how well a caster like eSevvy works at low points. He's got spells and a feat that are hit/miss/not used regularly at those levels...it's not to say he can't be good, it's just you might get turned off as he's may end up not doing a whole lot.

I do suggest pSevvy. He's got the best buff in the game IMO and then another buff to ranged and melee.
The de-buff makes stuff hit when you need it to.
He's got 2 direct damage spells one for harder targets and one for anti-infantry..and he gets a lesser version of his bond spell.
His feat is really nice. It shuts down enemy arcing.
If it's an enemy that doesn't arc and camps the focus, no problem, get Sevvy in 16" of the enemy caster and he/she/it can't replenish. (Very WM only though).

I think he will do much more for you at 15-25.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Are you going to use the rules for a theme list at larger point levels? You get some nice bonuses, and eSevvy can take both Flameguard and Exemplar units, IIRC. I think Blessing of Vengeance is also mandatory in that list, but stronger channellers are always a good thing.

I don't really know a lot about the game, I had no idea you got bonuses for a theme list. I like the look of pSevvy and eSevvy so far after just rereading their cards. I have a dark color scheme for my Menoth though (Troops are black, with silver armor and yellow armor plates. 'Jacks are black and gold), so I don't know how 'in theme' they'd look. Where do I find the theme list stuff? Is it in the Protectorate book? I only have the cards right now.

Sanctjud wrote:Vanquishers are very nice.
Thresher AND a Continuous Anything Pieplate...yes please.

They are a great way to deter stealth units moving too boldly toward your lines.

That's just what I need right now, two of my closer friends at my FLGS are playing Scyrah and I imagine I'll be getting in a good number of games against them so I'd like good counters to their massive amount of stealth and assassins.

Sanctjud wrote:Now it's only 15 points, so you can't have everything you'd want, though it is missing something of a big punch. The Errants are pretty killy, but they have to get there and their hybrid roles mean an oppurtunity cost. In addition, I'm not sure how well a caster like eSevvy works at low points. He's got spells and a feat that are hit/miss/not used regularly at those levels...it's not to say he can't be good, it's just you might get turned off as he's may end up not doing a whole lot.

I'm not too concerned about how well eSevvy will perform himself at the lower point levels, I just really enjoy the Reign of Fire & Admonisher combo he has as well as his Awareness for the Errants and the shots/spells he'll be doing. I'd also like to see Influence and Fear of God in action as the only other two Protectorate players starting up at my FLGS play pKreoss. But I do see a big hole in the lists hitting power. I don't think I could take down that one 11 point Scyrah 'Jack I see on the table all the time with this list. I suppose I'd just have to try to tie it up or maybe make an impromptu assassination attempt on my opponent's Warcaster, as both my Scyrah opponents have a bad habit of keeping their caster and 'jack right next to each other. So I could just Reign of Fire through the Revenger Arc-Node into the big jack and Admonisher the caster a bunch.

Sanctjud wrote:I do suggest pSevvy. He's got the best buff in the game IMO and then another buff to ranged and melee.
The de-buff makes stuff hit when you need it to.
He's got 2 direct damage spells one for harder targets and one for anti-infantry..and he gets a lesser version of his bond spell.
His feat is really nice. It shuts down enemy arcing.
If it's an enemy that doesn't arc and camps the focus, no problem, get Sevvy in 16" of the enemy caster and he/she/it can't replenish. (Very WM only though).

I think he will do much more for you at 15-25.

I just took a look at pSevvy's card and he looks awesome! He has a lot more relevance at the lower point level I'm working at- I think. I still really like eSevvy, because this 15 point list is just my stepping stone to larger games with him and the weekly tournament held at my FLGS. But I could definitely see swapping out eSevvy for pSevvy in lower friendly games or for lower point tournaments as I still qualify for the monthly 'newbs only' Swiss Event.

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As far as all that goes, do you guys think I should change up my base though. As I look at and reread stuff I don't feel like the TFG Officer and Standard really does a whole lot for me here. It gives some sweet bonuses but it leaves me three men down. What is better terror, Iron Zeal and Ranked Attacks or three more guys? I could just as easily run a Max TFG squad over a Min TFG w/ Officer and Standard. What about higher point games, although I suppose a Max TFG unit w/ Officer and Standard would be awesome in those games and easily doable as the points are there.

Typeline wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:Are you going to use the rules for a theme list at larger point levels? You get some nice bonuses, and eSevvy can take both Flameguard and Exemplar units, IIRC. I think Blessing of Vengeance is also mandatory in that list, but stronger channellers are always a good thing.

I don't really know a lot about the game, I had no idea you got bonuses for a theme list. I like the look of pSevvy and eSevvy so far after just rereading their cards. I have a dark color scheme for my Menoth though (Troops are black, with silver armor and yellow armor plates. 'Jacks are black and gold), so I don't know how 'in theme' they'd look. Where do I find the theme list stuff? Is it in the Protectorate book? I only have the cards right now.

Yes, each warcaster can have their own themed list where unit choices are restricted and certain units are mandatory, but you get groovy bonuses.

Just remember, each new tier still requires the previous to be honored.
So there is a chance something in a Tiered list can't be used by Sevvy.

Not a huge issue, don't feel like you HAVE to go with Tiered lists or you HAVE to go without, just go with what you like and if you get any Tiers along the way, it's a bonus, not something to strive for if you are not looking to do it specifically.

It's been a bit since I check in with this thread. So I thought I'd post my win loss with my pKreoss list (Still the same as in first post, but I'll toss it out again).

pKreoss
Crusader
Revenger
Repenter
Choir of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth

I played three games last Thursday against a Stryker Cygnar list. The list was basically the Cygnar starter plus the Apprentice and some electrical solo guy. I beat the list all three times. Over the weekend I played three matches against three different protectorate lists, Reznik, The guy with Pathfinder (don't have my cards next to me) and a Kreoss mirror match. Won all of those. And today I played against Cyrx (Starter Warcaster, a Helljack, Bonejack and another Jack with four legs) and won. Then against a Cygnar list that I beat twice, it was another Stryker affair except this time it was basically the battle box plus some gun mages. Things went really well for me. I think the main problem I was having before is my opponents were using really hard 15 point lists like Terminus and Death Jack in 15 points.

Typeline wrote:It's been a bit since I check in with this thread. So I thought I'd post my win loss with my pKreoss list (Still the same as in first post, but I'll toss it out again).

pKreoss
Crusader
Revenger
Repenter
Choir of Menoth
Vassal of Menoth

I played three games last Thursday against a Stryker Cygnar list. The list was basically the Cygnar starter plus the Apprentice and some electrical solo guy. I beat the list all three times. Over the weekend I played three matches against three different protectorate lists, Reznik, The guy with Pathfinder (don't have my cards next to me) and a Kreoss mirror match. Won all of those. And today I played against Cyrx (Starter Warcaster, a Helljack, Bonejack and another Jack with four legs) and won. Then against a Cygnar list that I beat twice, it was another Stryker affair except this time it was basically the battle box plus some gun mages. Things went really well for me. I think the main problem I was having before is my opponents were using really hard 15 point lists like Terminus and Death Jack in 15 points.

Wow... putting that many points into 1 model at 15 points sounds like a terrible idea... Granted, it's likely to catch the opponent off-guard, but a good player could probably still pull off the casterkill by ignoring Deathjack completely.

Good to see you're getting plenty of wins, Typeline! I wish you luck in the future.

MasterDRD wrote:
Wow... putting that many points into 1 model at 15 points sounds like a terrible idea... Granted, it's likely to catch the opponent off-guard, but a good player could probably still pull off the casterkill by ignoring Deathjack completely.

That's what I thought too. But the Terminus, Full Mechanithralls unit, Stitchthralls and Deathjack is pretty hard to crack at 15 for me. Deathjack can pretty much run himself and deliver a vicious beating, Terminus camps all his focus for blasting and can't be killed until I kill the tough Mechanithrall unit a number of times over trying to kill the stitchthralls and master unit hidden amongst them. It's quite a lot to deal with, Terminus is just beastly himself but with all his backup the straight caster kill isn't going to happen against that list.

Yeah the trouble there is ranged attacks not getting through. I still think it's possible if you keep your own heavy jacks away from DJ and use them to trample through the McCainithralls and into Terminus. Or you could spam AoE's into the mcthralls until there's no unit for the Surgeon to add to. Or if you really wanted to be contrary, you could just take the same list.

Hi,

I am also planning a slowly build sevy army, while still playing and painting my cryx. I was thinking it might be a good idea to change caster for battles like that. I think Feora has really good chances against the list because of all the fire she can pump out. Not to mention het engine of destruction-power...

I know terminus camped on focus is a !*&*(#&, but even he can't take the heat of being on fire turn after turn... Plus the thralls will probably die in a turn or 2, even with though...

is this a nice solution, or did I miss something??

(I plan on having Sevy as main caster and feora and Kreoss as backup casters, since I like the models and they interact nicely with templeflameguard...)

After playing a few more games today, I've decided to revise my plan for future army development. I don't think I can leave the warm sweet embrace of Kreoss's bosom. His feat is just too good. It keeps winning me games I have no business of winning. That being said, here is how I plan on developing into further points.

15 Points----------
pKreoss
Repenter
Revenger
Crusader
Vassal of Menoth
Min Choir
25 Points----------
pKreoss
Revenger
Crusader
Vassal of Menoth
Min Choir
Max Temple Flameguard
Max Exemplar Errants
35 Points----------
pKroess
Revenger
Reckoner/Vanquisher
Vassal of Menoth
Min Choir
Max Temple Flameguard
Max Exemplar Errants
Max Exemplar Bastions

I'm having trouble deciding whether I want the Vanquisher or the Reckoner at this point. I pretty much was set on Vanquisher, then a friend shoved the Reckoner in my face. It seems so much better. Same point cost, but faster, hits harder, reach melee weapon, two more inches on it's gun, Ashen Veil, Assault and Flare. The only thing the Vanquisher really has up on it is the AOE 4 and pow 14. But if the AOE drifts (like it will on stealth guys) it's only pow 7. I keep thinking Reckoner, but my more experienced Warmachine playing friend says Vanquisher. What do?