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Hello,
Trying out a Tremere character for the (now defunct) Vampire the Masquerade.

Now the 'example' in the book (and frankly white wolf writes some fairly hazy stuff) is basically 'Billy takes Thaumaturgy 1, he therefore gets 1 level 1 ritual.

I have taken 2 Thaumaturgy paths, Power of the Mind to level 4 and Power over the Mortal Shell to level 3.

I think this grants me: 2 lvl 1 rituals, 2 lvl 2, 2 lvl 3 and 1 lvl4 ritual.

My friend says due to the example in the book, all starting characters only get 1 ritual.

That seems fairly weak given the amount spent in Thaumaturgy.

Anyone else run/play and have advice?

Okies from what I remember MGS its one of the more complicated areas of the book. As pretty much all magic is in WoD.

If I remember my last Tremere character you pick a primary path as you place your first dot in Thaumaturgy. That also gets a point and you get a ritual.
If you place a second point in Thaumaturgy you'd put another dot in the primary path, but by the rules you don't get any more rituals.
There are no experience points for Rituals mind, but you need another Tremere to have taught you. The book suggests in game, but we allowed extra rituals with explanations in History etc, remembering most Tremere are not going to train you a rite for free, so you'll need to figure out what you paid for it, or most likely what you owe in your background.

You can learn a secondary path when the Primary hits two or more dots, but you still gain no extra rituals. Its supposed to be mostly In character from what I remember, I added the backstory stuff option as it allowed for characters to start with some interesting debts.

Hope thats helpful.

Thanks MDS, I had also posted this question over on the WW WoD forums (they have generously kept a board for the old game system).

I don't think the 1 ritual thing is much use if you've got, as my character has, 4 dots in one path and 3 in another.

They suggested a 'pyramid' style for the rituals which I liked and also that you just pay exp for rituals at the same level as skills.

Aye. it was an odd one, why they didn't just have a background like Werewolf had where each dot gave you a number of rituals known at creation.

Hell they could have made it Tremere specific in the Clanbook.

In fact, Hmm, on saying that, I think I might be putting a slip of paper in my Tremere book with a new houserule. Makes much more sense.

Back in the day, in MET, you got 1 free ritual for learning basic, intermediate or advanced on your primary path of thaumaturgy. You could then buy more, at a cost somewhere between xp costs for disciplines and that for skills.

I don't know how that transmutes to TT, but I've got a copy of clanbook tremere somewhere and I think there's a special exp scale for the level of ritual you're going for, and each has to be researched or a mentor found. They can after all be very powerful indeed.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Hello,
Trying out a Tremere character for the (now defunct) Vampire the Masquerade.

Now the 'example' in the book (and frankly white wolf writes some fairly hazy stuff) is basically 'Billy takes Thaumaturgy 1, he therefore gets 1 level 1 ritual.

I have taken 2 Thaumaturgy paths, Power of the Mind to level 4 and Power over the Mortal Shell to level 3.

I think this grants me: 2 lvl 1 rituals, 2 lvl 2, 2 lvl 3 and 1 lvl4 ritual.

My friend says due to the example in the book, all starting characters only get 1 ritual.

That seems fairly weak given the amount spent in Thaumaturgy.

Anyone else run/play and have advice?

By the book(Revised edition),your friend is correct. You start with one level 1 ritual.

However,from the looks of things,it doesn't look like you're using the standard 15 Freebie Point character creation. Perhaps you guys are using the Eldar rules from the old Elysium book or your ST is just giving you more freebies at start for a more high powered Chronicle. At your character's power level,it does make some sense that he would start with more than 1 ritual. Perhaps you could talk to the GM and see about a formula to let you buy more rituals with Freebies? Maybe 1 Freebie Point=2 Levels of rituals.

Thaum is expensive at character creation,but also remember that your paths are all basically their own disciplines that raise at 4xcurrent level,then throw in the fact that you can rituals through gameplay for no XP cost at all.