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I have BEAUTIFUL Iyanden army that I'm going to sell or trade to start Warmachine. I am thinking of a Rahn list but I'm wondering if a newcomer will find it a bit tough as a starter list.

35/35
Adeptis Rahn Shyeel (*6pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
* Chimera (6pts)
Dawnguard Sentinels (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
* Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard (2pts)
* Soulless Escort (1pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
House Shyeel Magister (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)

Of course the idea is to knock back or pull aside anything in the lane to caster and assassinate him with either Jacks, Feat, Assassins etc. What would you do with this list and what changes would you make if any? It's a big investment and I am giving up a very nice army

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/pheelixkat/eldar/

These are just some of my models ... there is enough for 2000 - 3000 points with Wave Serpents, Falcon, Wraithguard, Wraithlord, Jetbikes, Vypers, Harlies, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Warlocks, Farseer, Autarch and special characters ( Eldrad, Yriel, Jain Zar)

I figure I should get a decent warmachine army out of them, no?

If you are going to use rahn, maximizing his feat is really important. Here is the tier 3 list I'm using at the moment

Adeptus Rahn
Phoenix
Hydra
Chimera
Battle Mages
Battle Mages
Magistar
Magistar
Magistar
Arcanist

works very well so far, I'm really enjoying playing it. 2 arc nodes, and the hydra doesn't need a lot of focus to run. the magistars and mages are great for pulling warjacks or such into range of the warjacks without having to overextend them.

NaZ

@NaZ: Maximizing Rahn's feat is nice, but it isn't the end of the world. That many Battle Mages and Magisters don't leave room for a whole lot else. Personally, I find that a more diversified list gives you more options, especially if you run into, say, a Goreshade list.

@felixcat I like the look of your list, offhand. Not a fan of the Phoenix personally, but that's just my opinion. Too expensive for my taste, but you do get a lot out of it. I just don't like concentrating so much in a single model. If/when you expand to 50, I might add another unit of Mages, but I'd also look at grabbing a Mage Hunter Strike Force. That, or take a look at the House Guard choices, which fit nicely into Rahn's tier list.

EDIT: And wow, those are some nice Eldar. If that's your painting, I can't wait to see what you do with your Retribution.

@ Tarot -

How would you build my list? And do you have any tricks or strategies to help me out?

I disagree!

one of the great things about rahn is the boost to magic shots and their damage rolls. I killed a warcaster with just the infantry because he was within los of one of them. hit boosted, dmg, pull forward. hit again (repeat 5 times) then hit it with the magistar in order to finish him off. all of those shots and damage rolls were boosted by the feat. powerfull stuff with the right synergy

It is very nice, NaZ. But it's a one trick pony. Any list that has a spell denial component (any list with Garryth, either Goreshade, Aiyanna and Holdt, Doom Reavers, or the new Thrullg) will absolutely destroy it, with no chance of getting off any shots at all. If you put all your eggs in one basket, you may get spectacular results, but any list with a solid counter will crush you into the ground.

@felixcat The list you have seems pretty solid, and you seem to have a basic strategy worked out. What it comes down to now is putting it on the table and seeing what you do and don't like about it. List building in Warmahordes isn't like 40k, there's no I Win buttons. Everything you want to throw in (within limits) is a perfectly viable choice, and you seem to have taken a good enough mix of models that you should be able to react to any wrenches your opponent throws into the mix.

As far as strategy goes, the only thing I'd really add is to keep in mind the utility a good solid flanking maneuver or two can bring. Your Chimera and Narn make solid threats to deploy on your opponents flanks, due to the Arc Node and Acrobatics rules, respectively. At the very least they can ensure your opponent pulls models away from his core, letting your strategy of opening a hole to blast their Warcaster work even better. And that's not even considering the piles of damage they're capable of doing on their own.

Actually, taking a second look, I might drop the Soulless Escort personally, but what you'd do with one extra point is beyond me. Not to mention, again, my general dislike of Soulless (although I can't say I've used them enough to have a solid opinion) is entirely down to personal preference.

Actually I only use rahn for tier list games. I can't say I've run into a warcaster that shuts down magic attacks. I'll have to go poke around on battle college and see what they do.

I have a kalyssa list that is tier 3

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper
Hydra
Phoenix
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Mage Hunter Commander
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Mage Hunter Commander
Arcanist
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
Mage Hunter Assassin
Mage Hunter Assassin
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios

And a Ravyn list (no tier)

Ravyn, Eternal Light
Manticore
Phoenix
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Mage Hunter Commander
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Arcanist
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
Mage Hunter Assassin
Mage Hunter Assassin

These are all fun to play and I think the tier lists are very cool.

I'm building some houseguard rifleman to go with rahn but still keep within tier. I think the CRA's and extra range would be a great asset

NaZ


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yeah goreshade or egoreshade could ruin rahn's day pretty bad

I'll just have to remember in A,B list games to pick my other list against cryx

Don't forget Garryth, Zerkova, Fiona, Severius, Mordikaar, Hexeris, Grissel... Probably a few more casters as well, but I'm not familiar enough with MkII Circle and Everblight to say for certain.

Likewise, models like the Choir, Aiyanna and Holt, Orrin Midwinter, Alexia, the upcoming Thrullg, and a wide variety of other spell-immune (or worse) models exist, and are for the most part considered rather competitive, and are thus common in most metas (YM, of course, MV). Over all, literally every faction has some sort of means to thwart caster-centric lists.

Don't get me wrong, I like theme lists. Hell, my two current 35 steamroller lists are a Sorscha T3 and an eButcher T3. However, if you don't take care to cover your ass with the more off-theme models available to you, you risk becoming overspecialized and able to be trounced by the simple misfortune of a bad match-up: Something which balanced lists tend not to suffer from.

Reznik

Yeah, Menoth and Cryx in particular have a lot of ways to shut this list down, not to mention the stupid amount of stealth that Cryx features...

I hope our conversation helps him out and doesn't constitute threadomancy

I actually use rahn as my B list, because kalyssa or ravyn are better imo. but when I use him its against armies that would have a harder time dealing with the battlemages. so far I've been able to avoid really bad matchups for him.

between kalyssa and ravyn its a tossup. though I like getting free stuff through kalyssa's tier.

one thing I really like w/ kalyssa is having backlash. unload boosted MHSF dmg on a warjack and rip up their warcaster a bit simultaneously. I've been able to activate kalyssa cast that, shoot the jack 3 times then follow up with both squads vollying into it. then narn or mage hunters etc to finish it off (or ideally strike at the warcaster if the jack is a wreck)

ravyn seems more about bypassing the front line. I've killed a couple of warcasters off when they strayed too close and I drop a cloud over their line which lets me hit them directly with the phoenix etc.

NaZ

I like Kaelyssa too. I was also thinking of this list ... I'm not sure why you are using the Manticore over the Phoenix and wasting two points? I get the arc node extra too. I think I costed it correctly ...

35/35 T3.

Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts)
Hydra (9pts)
Phoenix (10pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mage Hunter Commander FREE
Arcanist (1pt)
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios (3pts)

Not as comfortable with the strtegies here though. Would need a few tips.

It will depend on what I'm offered for 2500 - 3000 pts of Iyanden. Feel free to PM me, lol.

with ravyn the manticore is good for 3 boosted shots on feat turn. but the hydra is preferred jack imo because it alleviates focus issues a bit.

so for my kalyssa list here are my focuses

I have a center core of both jacks, her, narn, and eiriss. they advance together flanked by mhsf squads. I try to deploy the mage hunters as a pair towards a flank in order to limit their movement options. I play around a lot with what to do with the solos

Keep in mind you get to reposition one solo or unit of MHSF after setup and advance deploy because you are tier 3.

when you advance, the nearest jack part of the enemy battlegroup is the priority target.

activate kalyssa, cast backlash on enemy jack. shoot it 3 times with her gun, drop feat

hit it with eiriss if you can (sniper for 1 pt of dmg and 1 on the warcaster) to disrupt

follow that up with a volly from each of the mage hunter strike forces. even if they don't do much dmg individually, it is the 1pt for each affecting the warcaster that really matters.

if the warjack isn't dead yet, charge it with one of the heavies. or if you think you can get through like arm 20 on 4 dice the mage hunters are great here. (because of the double dmg past arm. even a few points hurts like hell)

basically the goal is to wreck the jack and inflict as many individual points on the warcaster as you can. regardless of the retaliation, you're going to repeat this process with jack number 2 if at all possible. that should finish off their warcaster just from backlash damage

the mage hunters are on the flank, and narn in the middle able to charge directly through lines. if their wounded warcaster makes a mistake and opens itself up to a charge from any of the solos it may die outright

so far these strategic thoughts have served me well

NaZ