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Ok, I am running the old edition of Battletech (rules from 1990)

So I am not sure how the "new" Classic Battletech rules work, but i have a question for all you mech buffs out there

In regards to LRM ammo...

An LRM 20 fires 20 missiles....

But it's ammo is bought in 1 ton amounts of 6...

So its that 6 shots of 20 missiles, or is that 6 missiles?

Thanks for the help!

6 shots of 20 missiles. Think of it as boxes of cans of beer. You've bought 6 boxes with 20 cans per box. and you have to drink all 20 in one go if you open a box, forgot to mention that.

You can also think of that ton of LRM ammo as 120 missiles.

So the the 1 ton of ammo for the LRM will give an LRM20 6 turns of fire, where the LRM5 with the same ton gets 24 turns of fire.

Indeed. Ammo is allotted by salvo (number of total shots) not by the number of shots fired per salvo.

So an LRM 20 with one ton of ammo can fire six times before the bin is empty. Each one hits with up to 20 missiles per salvo.

As a side note, you should pick up Total Warfare. It is the latest base rules set, but you should find most of the rules to be the same, unless you play with a lot of vehicles and infantry. Don't be intimidated by the size of the book, a lot of those rules include close air support and things like that. For straight 'Mech vs. 'Mech action you only need about 20% of the rules.

Ok, thanks guys!

It was just the Anti-Missile System that threw me off.

When the AMS said to subtract 1d6 x2 from its ammo each time it shot, I thought "i wonder if LRMs work the same way?" But that didn't make sense so...

So is Total Warfare 100% the same as BT from 1990, or are there any major changes?

Warboss Lockjaw wrote:Ok, thanks guys!

It was just the Anti-Missile System that threw me off.

When the AMS said to subtract 1d6 x2 from its ammo each time it shot, I thought "i wonder if LRMs work the same way?" But that didn't make sense so...

So is Total Warfare 100% the same as BT from 1990, or are there any major changes?

It is mostly similiar. There are a few changes to some equipment and how it works, but none of the old designs were invalidated by it. Amusingly enough, one of the rules that changed was the AMS rule you just quoted.

Probably the other really big changes were to partial cover, and how some weapons work with targeting computers. Other than that, nothing major changed that I can think of off the top of my head. For 'Mechs anyway. Vehicles and infantry got a pretty massive overhaul.

Psychical attacks are based of piloting skill rather than a fixed number. Mattlov hit the rest of the changes.

Thanks guys, I picked up the book and it looks good, i think I will give it a try

I can't fathom why such a (IMO) fun game got so battered over the years by copyright and designs and i dunno what...

There has really only ever been one real issue: The use of the image from other companies (Robotech, Dougram, Victor Designs, etc.)

The majority of those issues were resolved last year. Catalyst Game Labs has the right to use any of the images from the "old" stuff with the exception of the 14 Robotech designs.

They also thought they secured the rights to use those as well, but there was a hidden/secret clause in the lawsuit by Harmony Gold that disallows ANYONE (not just CGL and Battletech) from using their images. Since there has been corporate turnover on the Battletech side, no one knew about that clause until after the fact. It is one of the reasons that the anticipated Mechwarrior: 3015 computer game has run into a bit of a snag.

FASA brought this on themselves.

They got nasty over a toy that had a passing resemblance to a Timber Wolf. The toy owners called head office in Japan and called in favours.

Orlanth wrote:FASA brought this on themselves.

They got nasty over a toy that had a passing resemblance to a Timber Wolf. The toy owners called head office in Japan and called in favours.

Because that was a rip-off. The original deal they made to get the Unseen images was made in good faith, and was believed to be legitimate. It was discovered in all the lawsuits that this was not the case.

Mattlov wrote:

Orlanth wrote:FASA brought this on themselves.

They got nasty over a toy that had a passing resemblance to a Timber Wolf. The toy owners called head office in Japan and called in favours.

Because that was a rip-off. The original deal they made to get the Unseen images was made in good faith, and was believed to be legitimate. It was discovered in all the lawsuits that this was not the case.

Biggest loss in the end was to the players. Some of the best designs were lost in all that BS. The original Marauder, marauder IIc, Battlemaster, Griffin, etc were some of my favorite designs. Seems that the first Behemoth fell into that issue as well, since it went out of production and was replaced by a figure that looks nothing like the artwork. Shame, since that was prob my favorite mech.

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed that the "Unseen" issue still hasn't been resolved too. The Archer has always been my favourite, based off of the RoboTech Spartan/Gladiator.



I still use my ten "Unseen" Archers.

My favorites were the Archer and Marauder.

DeathwingCrusader wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed that the "Unseen" issue still hasn't been resolved too. The Archer has always been my favourite, based off of the RoboTech Spartan/Gladiator.


I still use my ten "Unseen" Archers.

The Unseen issue IS resolved.

Only 14 chassis are now Unseen, the "Robotech" designs. Everything else is no longer Unseen. If I remember the list right:

Stinger
Stinger LAM
Wasp
Wasp LAM
Phoenix Hawk
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Rifleman
Crusader
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Marauder II

I'm forgetting a couple. They'll come to me as soon as I try to go to bed.

Unfortunately my favorite mechs are the Rifleman, Archer, Warhammer and Marauder. I'd love to be able to rebuy them someday...

Actually, they've already officially replaced the designs for the Marauder and many other Unseen.

I actually rather like many of the updated designs, including the new Marauder (and I was a big fan of the original).

I think there are 2 others.

The Ostrol(sp?) was a Zentradi battlepod and a 100 ton mech that was the big defense driod with 3 or 4 huge long cannons on top of the mech.

Vertrucio wrote:Actually, they've already officially replaced the designs for the Marauder and many other Unseen.

I actually rather like many of the updated designs, including the new Marauder (and I was a big fan of the original).

The only new Marauder I like is the IIc because it looks very close to the origional ones. The other new MAD designs look too clunky for my taste. I do like the new Rifleman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

inquisitor_bob wrote:I think there are 2 others.

The Ostrol(sp?) was a Zentradi battlepod and a 100 ton mech that was the big defense driod with 3 or 4 huge long cannons on top of the mech.

I think that was the Behemoth (Stone Rhino), since it disappeared around that time and got a redesign. Its the one in my avatar...if it is the case then I dont see enough similarity to have pulled it.

Oh, and the name of the robotech mech was the MAC-III...its very similar to the one you are thinking of, the MAC-II, but it is sleeker and has 3 guns on top, where the MAC-II has 4.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Endgame wrote:Unfortunately my favorite mechs are the Rifleman, Archer, Warhammer and Marauder. I'd love to be able to rebuy them someday...

The new Rifleman sculpt is real nice, as is the Warhammer...its very close to the original. The new Archer is meh.

The Robotech Behemoth and the Unseen Clan Behemoth (from M4M's Avatar) are two different things.

The reason that most of the 3055 Clan IIC art was Unseen at the time was that it was not done in house by Battletech people. For the Unseen issue, anythin that was not done by the FASA/FanPro/Catalyst people was considered Unseen.

The recent work done by Catalyst got everything but the Robotech stuff back into the full ownership of the Battletech line (including the Dougram designs!) to become "Not Unseen."

To be clear full ownership, but full permission.

Dougram and Crusher joe still remain primarily Dougram and Crusher Joe, even though they are recognised more for their equivalents in Battletech.

It has come to light that that IP owners of those franchises had no beef with FASA, this resolution could have been achivved over a decade ago.

Mattlov wrote:The Robotech Behemoth and the Unseen Clan Behemoth (from M4M's Avatar) are two different things.

The reason that most of the 3055 Clan IIC art was Unseen at the time was that it was not done in house by Battletech people. For the Unseen issue, anythin that was not done by the FASA/FanPro/Catalyst people was considered Unseen.

The recent work done by Catalyst got everything but the Robotech stuff back into the full ownership of the Battletech line (including the Dougram designs!) to become "Not Unseen."

Ah, I see. Now get Iron Wind to start producing the old Behemoth design again...that is my favorite mech.

The whole Robotech thing is a bit nuts because some designs not banned as "Unseen" are still direct rip-offs of Robotech designs. Look at the pic of the Bombardier below and glance back at the pic of the Robotech Gladiator/Spartan I posted in a previous post.



Few of the "in-house" designs are as popular as the ripped off stuff - exceptions being the Awesome, Catapult, and Atlas. Even the Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) design began life as a Marauder (Robotech's Zentraedi Officer's Battle Pod) - it is a combination of the Marauder (Mad) and Catapult (Cat).

It only has to be different by a certain amount to avoid copyright/IP laws.